| Stormbanner | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 7th November 2009 - 09:44 PM (1,896 Views) | |
| Rats&Goblins | 8th November 2009 - 04:02 PM Post #16 |
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Chieftain
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It is not a loophole, it is not reading the entry in a creative fashion, it is reading the entry in the current version of the rulebook without any embellishment or creativity. It does not say One Use Only, it does not say Once Per Game (like one of the other banners), it does not say 'And is exhausted' (like several VC items). In my copy of the book, there is nothing that suggests that the banner is only usable once per game, only that the effect ends. Please tell me where it says the effect cannot be used again, without pointing to the old book. You are obviously entitled to use your army the way you see fit, and I look forward to seeing a ruling on the banner when the FAQ comes out in a month or so. 7th Ed armies have been hugely increased in power over their 6th ed incarnations, and points values reduced. I agree that it seems overpowered, but after arguing against Man Bane + rending stars being S7, and for the reverse ward failing on a 1 (as per the BRB - all ward saves fail on a 1) and being disproved on both accounts, and seeing BoC stuck with ranking up 4-wide... I will be totally unsurprised if GW stick with simplicity and say the banner is not one use only, even if that was not Jeremy's initial intention (which we still can't be sure of, unless you have those aforementioned psychic powers). Regarding "People like me", respectfully, you have no idea what sort of person I am, and you are far from qualified to make such a statement. |
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| Surbrus | 8th November 2009 - 04:15 PM Post #17 |
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Clanrat
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I agree with Rats&Goblins, there are a multitude of changes in the armybook, it has a different author and is intended for a different edition than the 6th edition book. For the reasons R&G stated, it sounds reasonable. Also, these are rule book rules, therefore changing them to "rules as intended" in my mind belongs in the realm of house-ruling. If this rule is to be changed as it was "intended" (insert R&G's psychic comment) then what else can/should be changed? According to all the fluff the author wrote, can we assume that Storm Vermin were supposed to get that +1 STR they were rumored to have? Isn't Ikit supposed to be a level 4 mage?.. he was before. And what about our weapon teams and the skirmish special rule?.. that was probably a typo as well. Where is the line drawn when it comes to rules as intended? Also, I paid approximately C$35 yesterday for this book. Why should I be responsible to do this homework to fix these potential typos, when it should have been done by GW themselves? Also, not having a 6th ed book of my own, am I supposed to go spend another C$35 dollars buying the old book so that I can do my own proofreading to catch any suspect typos, and even then what are the guidelines for catching and fixing these typos? In conclusion, unless you want to play with house-rules, what the book says is what we do. |
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| JaqTaar | 8th November 2009 - 04:22 PM Post #18 |
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Just wanted to mention that the German army book does have the "one use only" in the Stormbanner entry. |
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| drrat | 8th November 2009 - 04:25 PM Post #19 |
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Grey Seer
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They know it's one use only. They know what they are doing. I pity people who have to play against people like that. Spoken like true competitors. You cleverly talk about the merits of reading rules to the letter. You haven't really answered any of the points that I made so I will ask a simple question of you. This is a simple question for those intending to use the banner in this way. When the skaven FAQ comes out, do you think it will be a one use item or as you intend to use it? |
| warpstone, more warpstone, yes-yes, more warpstone.... | |
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| Sammy the Squid | 8th November 2009 - 04:30 PM Post #20 |
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Back to retirement!
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Ok guys, relax a bit. This conversation is getting a little too heated. Take a breather and return to discussion, without the near-flaming. Would hate for it to go to far and lead to Council action... On the topic at hand, personally I read the Storm Banner as being able to be re-used, but once activated it MUST continue until it 'expires'. So if you activated it in the enemies turn, and it ran out at the start of the enemies NEXT turn, then you couldnt re-activate it then, you would have to wait until their following turn. This way, you would only get to use it a few times a battle, and it would be unreliable as to when you could use it... Just how I read it ofcourse... - Sammy |
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"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!" Wins/Losses/Draws Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20 Dark Elves - 44/14/8 Hochland Empire - 33/14/4 Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4 Beastmen - 50/25/2 Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!! | |
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| Surbrus | 8th November 2009 - 04:33 PM Post #21 |
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Clanrat
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Yes the German army book does say one use only. However we are discussing the original, written by the original author himself. It doesn't matter if the German book says "one use only" or if the Martian book says that Verminous Valour says you can start with your Character on the back rank. The German translator clearly believed it was one use only, however as we can see from the original English copy, that is not the case. It would be a much different case if the book was written originally in German, however it is not, and as such can be attributed to rules loss in translation (again the Martian example, just because the translation to Martian was not a direct translation, should we change the original English rules? I think not). MUTATE: drrat's question: "When the skaven FAQ comes out, do you think it will be a one use item or as you intend to use it? " My Answer: I cannot claim to know what they are going to do with any FAQ's. And seriously, I don't know what they are going to do. I'll deal with it when/if they make future changes. |
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| Rats&Goblins | 8th November 2009 - 04:39 PM Post #22 |
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Chieftain
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As I said, I fully expected the throwing stars to be S6, not chariot busting S7. GW are far from consistient on their FAQ writing. I thought that was overpowered, I think the Banner is overpowered too, but that obviously won't stop GW from FAQ'ing it to be reusable. At the moment I think they will go the easier route of saying "That's what it says in the book, so that's what it means", which they have done frequently in the past, despite it being against common sense or "intention". |
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| Blood Vixen | 8th November 2009 - 04:45 PM Post #23 |
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All hail the Age of Skaven
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The way I read it, it is constantly reusable, however, if it exhausts it is not in effect for that turn and needs to be reactivated, otherwise as strong as it is, 50% chance of it shutting down would make it allmost not worth it since its every players turn its tested. Not only that but the way its written you would have to roll to exhaust the after youactivate it also, so even if it works all game its a 50% chance of it working that turn which if it exhauts in the same phase, if something stops working in a phase, you cannot take a second of the same phase to try and reactivate it. Remember in a round everything is happening at the same time, you cannot have it exhaust then work straight away afterwards. |
| Shhhh I'm not here | |
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| ratboy1018 | 8th November 2009 - 05:03 PM Post #24 |
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Lab rat hard at work
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i don't think you have to test the turn you activate the banner. the activation and the test both take place at the beginning of the turn. if you activate it, the beginning of the turn is over. |
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| Blood Vixen | 8th November 2009 - 05:05 PM Post #25 |
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All hail the Age of Skaven
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Was a mistake in writing on my part it was intended for the follwoing turn |
| Shhhh I'm not here | |
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| ratboy1018 | 8th November 2009 - 05:07 PM Post #26 |
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Lab rat hard at work
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BV i agree with you completly. by the way, where do i get my 6th ed memorial sticker? |
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| Blood Vixen | 8th November 2009 - 05:19 PM Post #27 |
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All hail the Age of Skaven
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Maybe the easiest way I can explain it is with a little word play. Replace "Roll to see if it exhausts" and "Activate it at the start of either players turn" With "Roll a dice at the start of each players turn, if the roll is passed the StormBanner is in effect this turn" Its different wording but it means the same thing. |
| Shhhh I'm not here | |
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| Rakashani | 8th November 2009 - 05:37 PM Post #28 |
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Warlord
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Ok,I've seen people on many forums say or something like it. Here's my question... What do you see in the text that implies this to you? Why can you not simply activate the banner on every enemy turn? Since the timing of "activating" and rolling the test is ambiguous "just saying "at the beginning of the player's turn" why do you think it is not reasonable to activate it after the check fails? I ask because the argument seems to be that anyone advocating single-use is being accused of adding words that are not there but I fail to see any words that support the "reasonable" multi-use idea either. So why not play it as written simply activating it on every enemy player turn? MUTATE: Fixing typos caused by inept fingers on a Sunday morning. |
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| Blood Vixen | 8th November 2009 - 05:40 PM Post #29 |
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All hail the Age of Skaven
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Because unless otherwise stated you cannot use a item twice in the same turn, testing to see if it exhausts would count as its use for that turn. |
| Shhhh I'm not here | |
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| JaqTaar | 8th November 2009 - 05:49 PM Post #30 |
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I think it's an indication about how it's supposed to work: I don't know how the translators work, when and which version of the manuscript they work with, but I think that it is more likely that the English prints are missing a sentence rather than the translated version having a sentence coming out of nowhere. Omissions and mistranslations are frequent in the translations, but additions? I know the fact that it is ruled differently in another country has no effect on how you're going to play it; just take it as a hint. And if you can keep the martian and other such unnecessary comparisions to a minimum, that'd be appreciated. |
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