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| Tweet Topic Started: 7th November 2009 - 09:44 PM (1,891 Views) | ||
| slips | 7th November 2009 - 09:44 PM Post #1 | |
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Clanrat
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So I'm having trouble discerning the Stormbanner. On the one hand if you do a RAW interpretation, the entry does not say One use only, you have a banner that has the possibility of only ever being on, when its your opponents turn basically shutting down their shooting for the game. I don't see how you can get an RAI interpretation that doesn't mean the above simply because in the last book it did say One use only, and every other magic item that is One use only says it as well. It also turns off a lot easier than before. Thoughts? Bad editing maybe? I think its one of the best items we had before the update and now if you go with a RAW reading its gotta be one of the best magic items in the game -.- Although given the lack-luster of the rest of the magic items I wouldn't be surprised if it is a RAW rule -.- |
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| Rats&Goblins | 7th November 2009 - 09:57 PM Post #2 | |
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Chieftain
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I'm going to play it as it's stated in the book, until an errata or FAQ is published to the contrary - same with warpstone tokens (not sure if they missed out the 'not' on purpose there or what?) | |
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| slips | 7th November 2009 - 09:58 PM Post #3 | |
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Clanrat
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I don't have a "not" in my book ![]() mutate: ahh I misread that at first, warpstone tokens in the previous book also allowed you to cast with more dice than you normally could, they're the equivalent of a one use only arcane item which bumps your casting roll, e.g. power stone. I would suspect the Warpstone Token entry is valid. The Stormbanner however reads like it can be active the entire game, it turns off at the beginning of the players turn, "hey its still the beginning lets turn it back on"
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| Dr. Acula | 7th November 2009 - 11:02 PM Post #4 | |
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Clanrat
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Until they errata it I'm going to play it as it can be turned on, although not on the turn it runs out - the roll is the beginning of the turn, turning it back on would therefore be after the beginning. The slaves also need on as you can technically run a 1x20 unit to get d3+20 hits when they break (it doesn't say complete ranks/rank bonus). |
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| Rats&Goblins | 7th November 2009 - 11:25 PM Post #5 | |
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Chieftain
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it needs to say 'ranks of five or more', really for the slaves. "Rank bonus" limits it too much, and "Complete ranks" can be misconstrued (purposefully) - 1x20 is 20 complete ranks of 1
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| SkavenDan | 7th November 2009 - 11:32 PM Post #6 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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actually it says after the first one so 1x20 isn't a bonus its the first rank! And rank is defined as 5 models in a row in the rule book anyone who actually plays the game knows that! What it doesn't cover which is should is if it only applies to the ranks that would add to combat res! |
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| Rats&Goblins | 7th November 2009 - 11:43 PM Post #7 | |
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Chieftain
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Actually a rank isn't defined as anything other than 'the horizontal lines of models in the unit' (p6). It's only for rank bonus that 5 is mentioned - if you want to go for RAW ![]() And it says ranks, therefore it means ranks - not rank bonus. EDIT: I believe that the rule applies to all ranks after the first, of 5 or more models - uncapped by Rank bonus, before anyone jumps on me for being a cheesy bastard! |
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| Edit | 8th November 2009 - 02:01 AM Post #8 | |
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Stormvermin
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..and this is what will give us a bad name ![]() i really wish they had better editors/reviewers to nip these type of things before printing does anyone think a banner that permanently gives -2 shooting for the whole board would be a 50 pt item..really? Or are you just trying to annoy your opponents so they can go and complain about "those overpowered skaven" |
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| slips | 8th November 2009 - 02:10 AM Post #9 | |
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Clanrat
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One Use Only not being there is a huge typo if it one. I'm not advocating this
Based on what we have though this seems correct.
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| jonadaya | 8th November 2009 - 02:27 AM Post #10 | |
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Clanrat
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I don't think so, but before the new Dark elves book I did not believe in a 25 pts item that shuts down the magic phase
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| drrat | 8th November 2009 - 09:17 AM Post #11 | |
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Grey Seer
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The storm banner is not meant to be reactivated. The wording is virtually the same as the old item except that it is cheaper and more likely to run out. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that because they forgot the words 'one use only' then you should exploit that. Why would it be cheaper in points if it is much much better than the old item? I notice people are saying they are going to play it as it is written until it is FAQed. That means they know how it is supposed to work, but they are going to ruthlessly exploit this loophole until GW close it. I find that pathetic. All those people who are going to play it that way should ask themselves what do they expect GW to say in the FAQ? I think most people believe that GW will say it cannot be reactivated. If you believe that then you don't need the FAQ to tell you what you already know already. Play the game how it is intended. Rules writers are not infallible, use your common sense! |
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| warpstone, more warpstone, yes-yes, more warpstone.... | ||
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| Warlord Wynnar | 8th November 2009 - 10:58 AM Post #12 | |
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Lord Of Ulricsberg
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I'm not shooting myself in the leg in the tournament circuit by not using the banner as often as possible. If they FAQ it to one use only, I'll accept that but until then, down with the pesky flyers and maybe my rats can get to the enemy before being shot to pieces. In friendly games it's a whole different ballpark all together. |
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Clan Skarratch ![]() Banner in progress... | ||
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| Rats&Goblins | 8th November 2009 - 11:46 AM Post #13 | |
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Chieftain
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Stop putting words in my mouth, this might surprise you, but I'm not psychic, I do not know the inner workings of the game designer's mind. Unike you, apparently? The book was written by a different author, who obviously had different things in mind for Skaven than Alessio did, items have changed, vanished, new ones have turned up - taking the old book as an example of "this is what it should be" is foolish. Warpstone tokens I could see being a typo (easier to miss a single word - certainly I filled in the 'not' myself the first time I read it). But missing the whole phrase seems less likely - I wouldn't be surprised if it was FAQ'd to be "Take it as written in the book", but equally I wouldn't be surprised if future printings included "one use only". Point is, there is ZERO way of knowing, unless you happen to come from the future, or have examined mr Vetlock's brain recently.
Hydra, DoC, Abomination (new, but you get the general idea), S7 throwing stars, miscast on doubles thingy, VC magic... err... where have you been the last few years? New things get more powerfull, for the most part, it's the way of the gaming world to make you want to move onto new sets of rules, new game expansions (MMO's I'm thinking) and the like. So yes, until someone tells me otherwise, I'm going to play 7th ed how the 7th ed army book is written based on what's written in other 7th ed books, not something that was in a now redundant book
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| reddogfish77 | 8th November 2009 - 12:34 PM Post #14 | |
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Grey Seer
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oh burn... lol... good point. i am going to use it like that because they definately gave us a thousand and one "one use only". i doubt they forgot to give the one thing everyone loved from the old rules some scrutiny. they made death globes one use only... and they cost the same amount... but they made warpfire throwers hit everything partially touched and cost less. so yeah play it as written because that is what they meant otherwise its their prob.
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| drrat | 8th November 2009 - 02:59 PM Post #15 | |
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Grey Seer
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To ratsandgoblins... I have watched 4 new editions of this game and tons of army books, you don't need to lecture me about how points values change and armies become more powered. I have seen it many times before. The truth is that you know and everyone else knows that if you use the item as you are saying you are going to use it, it is not worth 50pts in the current climate. You know it is worth at least 150pts. You also know that this is not a new item. It is in the old book and has been reduced in points, and lo and behold, the chance of it expiring has increased. Those two go together logically and rationally. You also know and anyone with a brain knows, that when they FAQ it, it will clarify this. So please don't give me all that rubbish (that you know to be complete rubbish) about bloodthirsters, S7 throwing stars, or whatever. It is completely irrelevant. As is the fact that someone new wrote the book. Many of the units and items are exactly the same as in the previous book, don't make out that this is a completely new vision of a new person. All the army books evolve, but don't tell me that Jeremy envisaged an incredibly overpowered magic item, insanely low priced in this way, becuase you know that is complete nonsense. People like you don't care about what the rule really is, all you are doing is looking for loopholes to extract any extra advantage over your opponent. You know precisely how this item is supposed to work yet you have seen that GW has not made it blindingly obvious, so until then you are going to cynically exploit that for your own advantage. When I use my skaven, if I use the storm banner I will play it as it is intended. I will play it exactly how I know the FAQ will tell me to play it, and I won't exploit my opponents until they do. |
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| warpstone, more warpstone, yes-yes, more warpstone.... | ||
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