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Eshin in 7th.; Rumour-free zone
Topic Started: 6th November 2009 - 11:40 AM (880 Views)
Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

Morgoth
Nov 8 2009, 11:57 AM
Sadly only 1 unit of Nightrunners may be equipped with the Warp-Grinder.
That tossed some of my lists down the drain too.  <_<

:o

*reads*...

*groans*...

... Well, despite the fact that clan Eshin now need to rely on clan Skryre for underground advances, I think it might still be a fluffy option to use. Fluffy, mind you. During the 6th edition you could have two tunneling teams for app. 170 points, whereas now that would be the cost of one unit. So, in regard to the points versus effect debate, I'd have to say that it's less of a tactic and more of a benefitial surprise in case it actually works.

As a general response on how to use clan Eshin, I think Blood Vixen summarized the tactic to use quite well. Hit and run, ambush all the way.

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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Skaven track record [W/D/L] @ 17th of August, 2014: BB 34/19/55; MH 9/2/6; WHF 17/8/30
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JaqTaar


I've been thinking about building a small Skaven army and being a sneaky Dark Elf player at heart have chosen the Eshin clan.

An idea for the general I've picked up in another forum is a Warlord on Rat Ogre or Palanquin (not sure what the English name is) as counts-as Assassin Triad on monster base.

For special units and weapon teams I think that Poison Globadiers and Mortars fit; the Mortars could be a low-tech variant similar to the halfling hot pot.

Anyone got ideas for a thing-shredder counts-as?
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

Skaven Ninja Whirling Blade Attack of Death?

Not sure how to fill up a cavalry base with it, but there is nothing cooler then ninjas that are avoiding bullets and carving up complete units once they reach combat. (A bit like the fighting scenes in the last couple of episodes of the Samurai 7 anime).

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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Skaven track record [W/D/L] @ 17th of August, 2014: BB 34/19/55; MH 9/2/6; WHF 17/8/30
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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
Nov 9 2009, 01:23 PM
Skaven Ninja Whirling Blade Attack of Death?

HEY? We just got a model for that! The Deathmaster Batrat. Just add 2-3 giantrats in front carrying pavises, to provide the armoursaves. :P

Sorry, I just don't like that model. Now back to topic. :blush:

@JaqTaar: IMHO Warlord as MasterAssassin is acceptable, but adding a ratogre (rulewise) gets too far from what you wish to proxy.
Globadiers and mortars could be fine.
Thing-shredder? Pass. No idea ATM, but could be an effective diversion, while our throat-cutters close in.
Greetings from MorgothPosted Image Mostly Clan Eshin, occasionally Clan Husk.
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scrivener
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*toot*

We can eshinify a few unit types, but the overall feel should still be eshin. Stuff that are either straight out eshin or use sneakiness and guile...

Even if only one nightrunner unit may tunnel, the others get their free move, plus you can still tunnel some of your gutters and the rest can still come in from any edge (albeit a little unreliably), giving you still a good deal of ambush potential.

I'm thinking the nightleader might not be worth upgrading to, but the deathrunner, which can be upgraded with weeping blade, might be worth as a small character killer.

Shadow Magnet Trinket: unnatural darkness confers to hit penalty to shooting. Sounds eshin to me...

The infernal bomb sounds like it might have quite a bit of use, both as the obvious killing tool and also as a landmine to block enemy movements. Even if it never goes off, your opponent would have to rethink his moves to avoid getting too close to it.

Warlock engineers are not too bad in a skryre army if tooled right. I like the no-magic sniper option, plus you'd always need a scroll caddy. Engineers also offer the chance of having access to skitterleap.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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kizzlesticks
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I've been mulling over the question of eshin myself and have come up with a couple of possibilities.

1) Although some people might loathe the idea of ranked units of nightrunners, the ranks add to respectable leadership of 6 (which is as good as any hero-level general will give), giving them a leadership of 9 with full ranks (one ld short if you have a lord-level general). Thus I feel that there isn't such a strong need for a general and can therefore be chosen as a weak character. True, if they are killed the enemy gets bonus points, but surely we can keep them out of harms way. This leads to my next point...

2) Magic. In order to survive against a competent magic phase an army would probably need at least two mages. I am assuming that we are talking about a 2000 points army, which allows us two more hero choices. I'm also assuming that we want some assassins in our army, and one probably wouldn't be enough. Hence I feel that it is possible to cut corners and make one of our engineers double as a general.

3) Someone mentioned that engineers cannot reliably get skitterleap. While this is arguably the most 'eshinesque' of our spells it is sadly lacking compared to the Storm of Chaos variation. Because we cannot leap characters directly into combat its use is somewhat more limited. Even if we were to give a warlord a fellblade we still could not deliver him like we could the master assassin, and his stat-line is lacking compared to our lost sensei.

4) It is also sad but true that Eshin now need to lean on Skryre for support. However it was not too uncommon for Eshin generals to employ one or two units of Jezzails as sniper teams. Also in terms of fluff Eshin has always remained politically neutral, always siding with who paid them the most. It wouldn't be surprising if they have acquired some of the skryre tools as either payment or spoils of victory and have trained their own troops in the use of the tools, hence cutting out the middle-men.

5) One final thing worth mentioning. Eshin were unfortunately left of the rare units list. While it would have been great to see something like the eshin triads, the fact that we aren't tempted to spend 100+ points (or more than double that in moulders case) can work to our advantage when building up our core and special choices by giving us either more numbers or better equipment (hey, its worth trying to get a positive out of it :P)

Now onto possible strategy:

I am curious as to what happens when multiple teams are tunneling in. From what I gather, each unit would place a tunneling marker on the table. It doesn't specify that the tunneling markers must look different, meaning that the enemy doesn't know what unit will come out. I do however believe that you must specify yourself which unit goes to which marker and not change them around (by writing it on a piece of paper, or possibly under the markers).

There are a couple of uses I can think of for this. One is the use of a 'decoy' unit of 'naked' nightrunners, leaving your gutter runners to cause the damage. Another one is to use the nightrunners ranks and lack of skirmishing rule. A unit with good independent leadership that has the capacity to negate enemy ranks on flank or rear charges rather than just adding the extra combat-res could be dangerous. I'm sure that there are plenty of other uses for them to come up with :)

One final question an eshin general will have to ask themselves is how many units of jezzails; none, one or two (or more, but that starts looking suspiciously skryre). This will affect the number of gutter runners you can have and hence the number of tunneling units. If you choose a single unit of jezzails you can take three units of gutter runners (again assuming 2000 points), allowing two of them to tunnel (half of the number of units, rounded up) for a total of three tunnels with the night runners. If on the other hand you take two units of jezzails you will only be able to take one unit of tunneling gutter runners.
Note that even if you take no jezzails the number of tunnelers will still be three, as the number of gutter runners that can tunnel is half of the total number you take rounded up, so I would strongly advise against it.

If you do decide to take jezzails you can use them to cover your tunnels. A possible counter to tunnels is to put a fear or terror causing unit near the exit and simply scatter the unit when it arrives. The jezzails could open fire on a model or unit foolish enough to do so. If on the other hand they send an expendable unit to tie the tunneling units up I suppose you would have to adapt.

Sorry about the wall of text people. I hope it makes sense and helps in some small way.

Later!
'Sticks
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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

True. 1/6 chance of skitterleap. <_<
If I ever should play something like a tournament, I would ask whether I could have Skitterleap as default. Thus I get a weaker Eshin Sorceror, and my opponents will not have to worry about Warplightning or the other spells.
Engineers also have acces to a +1 BS with the right weapon.
Greetings from MorgothPosted Image Mostly Clan Eshin, occasionally Clan Husk.
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SingTheScreams:   "....we ain't no chaos-worshipping freaks. We be ratmen, and we do as we please......"

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Girion


Would go for an Grey Seer on Screaming bell as General as it gives you an sure Skitterleap, good enough magic for just one character slot and an Unbreakable unit thats able to hold it's ground and tie something up wile your troops can run around and do there job.
For Rare I would take something to destroy an Flank so your Night Runners can run around for rear charges/ranged troops, wich I think will be the advantage of an Eshin army, enemies that have an gunline, your nightrunners get an Scout move and movce fastand get to to the cannons and stuff fast and you can have 4 units of gutterrunners coming from behind.
Otherwise I would think it's about make your Nightrunners come behind, and come from both side in an way an non Eshin Army can't wich will be the armies Strenght.
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Tunnel Rat
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How about a unit of tunneling Globadiers but play them as skirmishing Eshinites with exploding warpstars?
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scrivener
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*toot*

I think the warpgrinder, which grants tunnelling, can only be attached to nightrunners and gutterrunners.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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Warlord Itik Slashgnaw
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Clanrat
7th ed eshin army 2000

I love themed armies, and the eshin army in storms of chaos book was interesting and cool but we don't have that in this book.

warlock lvl 2
dispel scroll x 2 or 1 and a warp musket and optics etc

3 assassins(one hand to hand one shoots warp stars etc)

_______________________

5 or 6 units of night runners (one with warpgrinder)

_________________

4 units of gutter runners (two with warpgrinder)


Wow thats it! jesus eshin got screwed in 7th ed. hmmm add deathmaster snitch?
hardest clan to play with and stay themed. ambushy is all they have going for them.


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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

SoC also opened the option of adding "hired units" or "pawns"
Personally I find Jezzails and Globadiers to fit the Eshin fluff. Snipers and Poison!

Now that Nightrunners have been forced to rank up, the step towards general units as Clanrats, slaves and yes, even Stormvermin seems less improper. You can always regard them as diversion = fodder.
And as already stated, since we now need a non-Eshin general <_<, the inclusion of lesser units from other clans or simply not found fitting for NR-duty (too slow?) has become more acceptable.

Hard characters and units will be difficult to take down, but if they can be diverted by sacrificing cheap troops, we can butcher the rest. Quite another tactic than the SoC way of assassinating the leaders, but having to field a GreySeer in order to be certain of the lack of skitterleap, and even then not in CC, forces us to adapt.

Eshin will find a way!
:pmaster:

Greetings from MorgothPosted Image Mostly Clan Eshin, occasionally Clan Husk.
Proud keeper of the Poking Stick of Doom, known to many a RPG-player Posted Image
Quote:
 
SingTheScreams:   "....we ain't no chaos-worshipping freaks. We be ratmen, and we do as we please......"

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