| So whats good in the book? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 5th November 2009 - 07:59 PM (3,217 Views) | |
| Fool Injected | 7th November 2009 - 02:44 PM Post #31 |
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Warlord
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Been playing TK for years. That is the exception to the rule not the norm. Six or so is good with the bone giant |
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Current Fantasy Armies: Dark Elves Empire Skaven | |
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| Aldaris | 7th November 2009 - 10:14 PM Post #32 |
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Clanrat
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Oh, I understood that. Skaven have changed, absolutely. But you and Blood Vixen make it sound like Skaven had no nasty lists in the last book, and everyone had to play a happy horde relying on combat res and sheer tactics. Which we both know isn't true. There were just less variations of nasty stuff, but they were there all right. On the other hand, Blood Vixen implies that the new book is somehow the auto-win button, that no tactics are required to use it and that it now plays like any other army, which cookie-cutter seems to imply. Well, which one exactly? That statement makes no sense, because pretty much all Warhammer Armies have a very distinct feel with unique strengths and weaknesses. Some do have similarities of course, and allow the employment of similar basic strategies. Others don't. There ain't no cookie-cutter here just because there are some new options. And as for the no tactics stuff, aw, come on. As if the SAD required a tactical genius to work well. You have the potential to make a mind-bogglingly boring, very powerful army with this book. And you can make an interesting, diverse one that can still kick ass, but requires skill to use and should be fun to play and face. Just like the old book in fact. I just don't like sweeping statements like the one I replied to, and I don't think speaking my mind on this is disrespectful. Blood Vixen has certainly been around here much longer than I have, but I hope that don't mean I have to take her word as gospel. Because that would mean I'd have to be gloomy and depressed instead of overjoyed at the new release. That said, I hope she overcomes her disappointment and does have fun with the new ratmen after all. |
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| ==Me== | 8th November 2009 - 01:30 AM Post #33 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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The new book is great, it brought ==Me== back into Fantasy after leaving it for a while. Everything is cool, I love the new stuff, the new old stuff, and the same stuff. ==My== only complaints are that Rat Ogres still kinda suck, Stormvermin are still meh, and Night Runners no longer skirmish. |
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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| Edit | 8th November 2009 - 01:42 AM Post #34 |
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Stormvermin
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I know my initial list i am building i noticed i have little to none of the old "SAD" stuff, its a giant horde of clanrats, slaves, giant rats and things-shredders, it will be hell to paint (i want to use the new clanrats, so have to repaint 120+ rats :P, but i never really like the monkey-rats anyway) not sure how well it will do, but looks fun to me, i was to the point that i wasnt taking ratlings or jezzails anymore anyway, warpfirethrowers are preferred machine. |
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| drrat | 8th November 2009 - 09:08 AM Post #35 |
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Grey Seer
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I played skaven back in the day, and there was a time before weapons teams when you played the army like a horde. I stuck to that with the 6th edition book, with the occasional toy added to help the horde be effective. This book, I believe offers the skaven player the most possibilities in terms of army selection ever! There are almost too many choices. The problem is that there is still potential for a toy-ridden list but I guess that is to be expected. I have never seen a skaven army with so many 'showcase' model options. The HPA, doomwheel, bell, furnace could all be centrepieces to any army. This skaven army also has the most access to terror when compared to previous armies, the highest access to impact hits, autohits, no armour save hits compared to previous books. My gripes are that they should have increased the strength on the stormvermin, there is still no real good reason to take them. I don't like the warpgrinder/tunneller mechanic, it is too expensive and in fact clan eshin has become even more sidelined with this list. I think they missed an opportunity to really go to town with moulder. With all the detailed options for skryre and pestilens, moulder should have got mutations, or some way to make rat ogres more viable, mind you, I like the master moulder upgrade. Overall, I am really happy with this book because it gives me a wide choice and more versatility than previous lists. I think there are various competitive builds, and obviously the cheesemeisters will discover the hardest builds. Also, there are loads of modelling, and conversion opportunities... 8/10 from me! |
| warpstone, more warpstone, yes-yes, more warpstone.... | |
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| Skaven Lord Vinshqueek | 8th November 2009 - 01:30 PM Post #36 |
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Bunny ear says flop
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To be honest, I'm a bit torn in between really liking the book, or finding it an abomination. The downgrade of Deathmaster Snikch is, in my opinion, plain stupid. He used to be the assassins of all assassins, but now really has to stay hidden, as even with his Dodge save he can only take so much hurt... In addition, the absence of the Bands of Power made me cry. If there was one item that actually caused my opponent to get the musk of fear, then that was it. Really, really bad to see that one having been left out of the book. On the other hand, magic has become somewhat less obvious. Two lores for Skaven (even while Ikit used to know eight!) with three spell casters in our army make for somewhat more entertaining and tactically challenging magic phases again (in combination with shooting and combat, of course). Of course, there are many more points that could be mentioned, but some bits make me go whereas others make me go <_<.Greetz |
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor. ![]() Skaven track record [W/D/L] @ 17th of August, 2014: BB 34/19/55; MH 9/2/6; WHF 17/8/30 | |
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| Rats&Goblins | 8th November 2009 - 04:10 PM Post #37 |
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Chieftain
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It seems to be going more towards the 4th/5th Ed way of things - I remember battle reports with Bell, Vermin Lord and Doomwheel all appearing, or they could be taken as a horde. I love the amount of variety, and I'm glad that I can still field my 300+ rats and have room for playing with the doomwheel, or the new weapon teams, or even an abomination. Skaven have no doubt just become the defacto kings of Doubles tournaments - a 15pt hero leaving plenty of room for extra units or core slaves leaving space for both abomination and plague furnace, take that Dragonmge + Steamtank combos... Not sure how I feel about that, although the idea of fielding 350ish models in 750 points fills me with a strange sense of glee... |
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| reddogfish77 | 8th November 2009 - 11:38 PM Post #38 |
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Grey Seer
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what are you talking about... they will be the kings of doubles tournies... but not cause slaves are cheap... i worked out how many attacks a saurus warrior unit with spears would have if they were death frenzied... from 5 wide it was 41 or something... 7 wide your talking 57... using a doomwheel in conjunction with nightgoblins or something... an abomination supporting a cav charge... the furnace with.... anything else... ohhh it fills me with a warm fuzzy feeling.... lol |
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| Kevlar | 10th November 2009 - 10:37 AM Post #39 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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I really don't see what can stop an army fronting a Vermin Lord, two Abominations, and 3 plague priests with as many censers and monks as you can squeeze in. Fill out the extra slots with min sized core and some giant rats for rank bonus. With the storm banner protecting your big baddies from a round or two of shooting nothing should be able to handle that assault. The abomination is the best point for point model in the game. The Vermin Lord isn't the best greater demon, but he is not too far behind and it much more powerful than any level four caster any other army besides Chaos demons can field. |
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| Dusty Rat | 10th November 2009 - 12:35 PM Post #40 |
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The new book looks good overall. I look forward to play a game with it. In your opinion what is the better choice for competitive play? Vermin Lord or Grey Seer on bell? I'd prefer to field the bell, but it's less reliable, I guess. |
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| Gutrot Fuzzypaws | 10th November 2009 - 01:30 PM Post #41 |
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Clanrat
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I completely agree with the abom being a bandwagoner...tbh I don't see how its even that skavenie (sure its a moulder hodgepodge but what makes it different from other mutated things like spawn, in terms of fluff I mean.) In saying that...it is an 'i win button' However, The doom wheel is a way better choice, almost two for the price of one abom and they are Brutal with a capital B. Rat ogres are worth taking now if you know what you are doing with them Hate to say it, but the mortar, as much as I love the idea, is just not worth it, 6 PWGs are cheaper and will do more damage in a battle There are other things that are very cool but my favourite feature at the moment is the doom rocket. 30points for a large blast template of strength 5 pain...yes please Oh and 15 points for for 24" of S5 AP ownage that your grey seer can take on his bell...yeah sure why not (IMO the musket should be given to as many models as you can) All in all I like what they've done with the codex a lot. The pinky and the brain factor is better than ever - a good chance of demolishing your foe...and an equally good chance of your genius ratty schemes blowing up in your face. |
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There is only one feasilble tactic... UP THE MIDDLE LIKE A PACK OF BELLICOSE PENGUINS! | |
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| Gutrot Fuzzypaws | 10th November 2009 - 01:35 PM Post #42 |
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Clanrat
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I'd have to (respectfully) disagree. Try the DE hydra for 175pts. 99% of people I've talked to (including myself) vote that as the best bang for your buck. To repeat myself its just too pricey, when for a little points juggling, you can have two doom wheels instead |
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There is only one feasilble tactic... UP THE MIDDLE LIKE A PACK OF BELLICOSE PENGUINS! | |
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| Tenoshii | 10th November 2009 - 02:11 PM Post #43 |
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Warlord
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Good things for me.... Doomwheel is back! This was my favourite model in my 4/5th edition army and I have no idea why it was ever removed. If Empire can have a battle kettle why couldn't we have our hamster wheel? Vermin Lord! I'll never use him but it's nice to see him back aswell. Plague Furnace! I love it, it's fluffy, big, scary and kills us as much as the enemy. There are cries of overpowered already but it's still in a frenzied unit and that gives it an inherent disadvantage that I think will see it's reputation lessened once people learn to deal with it. Plague Priests! They were always nasty but now they get up to 2 levels of a very nice lore to back them up. Also, see above. Weapon Teams! Both of the new ones seem lovely, especially the Doomflayer, the change to Ratling Gun was needed as it was simply ridiculous before and the Warpfire Thrower is now the terror that it should be. Engineers! The most versatile character in the game. Can either kitted to be nasty level 2 caster, one-shot weapons platform, sniper or simply the cheapest general in Warhammer. I really want to see a battle with 992 Slaves and a lone, mad Warlock leading them. A-Bomb! I know a lot of people don't like it but I think it's fantastic. It could probably do with being toned down but with the current power of monsters in other books I don't think it's out of place really. Limit yourself to one and keep it out of games under 1k points unless you want people to start throwing cheese at you. They're the main things for me, magic items are pretty hit and miss thought the doomrocket is fantastic and Eshin has rather bizarrely been given a good shoeing for no adequate but other than that I'm extremely happy with the new book, much more so than I was with the change from 5th to 6th. |
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| Mouse Trap | 10th November 2009 - 06:56 PM Post #44 |
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cheese.......
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after reading the book i'm definetly gonna go for a warlord/ moulder army. Abominations are cool although tbh my favourite thing is actaully the new rule for giant rats. |
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| Bellatrix_Lestrange | 10th November 2009 - 07:03 PM Post #45 |
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Clanrat
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The doomrocket! An awesome way to spend 30 points. Fluffy, powerfull and most importantly extremely un predictable! |
| http://the-hunt-for-the-warpstone-alchemist.webs.com/ | |
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whereas others make me go <_<.





