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So whats good in the book?
Topic Started: 5th November 2009 - 07:59 PM (3,218 Views)
SavageBunny
Clanrat
I saw an abom destroy an Ogre army this week, furnace tied up most of a lizardman army for 3 turns solo last week...

The toughness tests on the furnace are no big deal, I saw them miss 1 the entire game. Unless you mean using a plague censor while on the furnace, but that is just silly, regular flail is a better option.
Paul Beck

Visit my YouTube Channel for my Skaven video battle reports.
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Wafflebob
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Chieftain
Abomination is definitely a band wagoner.

I played with it the other day and it slaughtered a unit of saurus warriors on the charge (and I forgot to roll it's impact hits) then crashed into a stegadon and killed every single crew member AND the stego individually (impact hits then feeding tubes or whatever it's called) then it took a charge from a unit of 20 temple guard and killed 8 of them before they broke it in combat. The slaan then roasted it with a conflagration of doom. It was uninjured until that point.

The plague furnace then took a charge from the TG and slaan unit and killed everything but the slaan himself. The plague lord on top had been casting vermintide and pestilent breath the whole game to great effect as well.

Screaming bell has been improved IMO. I watched the thing take a charge on 3 sides, stay because it's unbreakable then roll a 13 and and the ensuing combat broke all the units in contact with it. Not to mention an earlier toll of the bell shattered every cannon and mortar on the table.

Doomwheel is very nice as well. I still like to relate it to being about as powerful as an engine of the gods. Lightning is less dangerous to rank and file units than burning alignment but more dangerous to monsters and characters.

Poison Wind mortar is amazing, the new warlock engineers and plague lord are awesomesauce. The new spells are great. Cheaper clannies and stormvermin are good. Yes stormies are still a bit overpriced compared to plague monks, however stormies are core and monks take one of our valuable special slots.

Rat ogres are better than they used to be, but not by much. They still have to be fielded carefully to be effective. Gutter runners are better.

Jezzails were toned down a little bit but they still make swiss cheese out of large targets like nothing else. Globadiers got slightly improved but moved to our now crowded specials list.
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Blood Vixen
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All hail the Age of Skaven
The doomwheel, in my opinion the rest of the book is just a disgrace to our intelligence and everything that skaven stood for as its own seperate characterful army and is now just cookie cutter.
Shhhh I'm not here
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Kievien
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Chieftain
Blitz
Nov 5 2009, 04:32 PM
Things-Shredders have started to exists, and they are cool

They also make your normal Clanrat units considerably better. ^^

Anyhow. Just finished reading trought the book and I must say I'm pleased. Most things look quite balanced and I'm convinced I can have a fun time while gaming, while being able to make a more competetive lists for tourneys.

My favourites out of the new book would be :
* Thingshredder
* Doomwheel
* Plague Censer bearers
* Screaming Bell

Grtz. Kiev
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The Buoyancy of Water
Chieftain
Hi,

I am actually very pleased with our new magic item selection. After hearing people moan the lack of ward saves and useful items I was really worried, but having read them through several times I am very pleased. I can see uses for all the items we have and think they are for the most part suitably sneaky. Straight up 4+ ward saves aren't very Skaven like in my opinion, but things like making enemies reroll hits or getting -1 attack are far more in character. My three favourite combos so far are:

1. Warlord, Bonebreaker, Warlock-Augmented Weapon, Shield of Distraction, Rival Hide Talisman. Dishes out a respectable 10 S5 attacks while using his other items to hinder his opponent, preferably in a challenge.

2. Assassin, Infernal Bomb, Rival Hide Talisman (if the warlord doesn't have it...). Simple but effective. The infernal bomb is excellent for shutting off avenues of advance for your opponent and the assassin can go on to march block enemy units.

3. Priest, Flail, Furnace, Portents of Verminous Doom (could also have a scroll). + BsB, Sacred Banner of the Horned Rat in a nearby unit. I chose a furnace priest because of the huge damage him and his plague monks can do. If your opponent looses combat they are testing on -2 in addition to any other minuses they already have, so at est they are on Ld 7. This even works on stubborn units...

Those are just a few ideas I've had so far. What have others come up with?

Cheers,
Dave
I used to have a tally of wins, losses and draws, but I've totally lost count so will instead ramble for a little while...
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Aldaris
Clanrat
Blood Vixen
Nov 6 2009, 12:01 PM
The doomwheel, in my opinion the rest of the book is just a disgrace to our intelligence and everything that skaven stood for as its own seperate characterful army and is now just cookie cutter.

Uh... sure. Whatever.

Look, this is all about fun, so if a new version of something you like comes along and you don't like it, I understand that's kinda hard. But it doesn't insult anyones intelligence, it is not without character and it is certainly not cookie-cutter.
Just don't use it. No one forces you to. Lots of more intelligent, more characterful and less cookie-cutterish grass elsewhere.
;)
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
Aldaris
Nov 6 2009, 10:36 AM
Blood Vixen
Nov 6 2009, 12:01 PM
The doomwheel, in my opinion the rest of the book is just a disgrace to our intelligence and everything that skaven stood for as its own seperate characterful army and is now just cookie cutter.

Uh... sure. Whatever.

Look, this is all about fun, so if a new version of something you like comes along and you don't like it, I understand that's kinda hard. But it doesn't insult anyones intelligence, it is not without character and it is certainly not cookie-cutter.
Just don't use it. No one forces you to. Lots of more intelligent, more characterful and less cookie-cutterish grass elsewhere.
;)

R.E.S.P.E.C.T, take care of PCT! got that stupid song stuck in my head now.

anyway.

i think what vixen is trying to say is that skaven have had to be employed with great finesse due to our lack of an ability to kill stuff, and even then it took some doing to get those units that could deal out the pain into combat.

we had rat ogres which would get shot to pieces if deployed badly, grey seers which, like all wizards, would get fried if caught by themselves, jezzails which were move or fire, and censor bearers that had to stick by monks. and of course weapon teams that had to be well protected AND positioned.

now we have abominations that can do more damage then all but elite units. doom wheels which will fry all but the most awesome monsters. censor bearers that are independent. plague censors that can roam freely(and are downright unholy in close combat). plague furnace that can, well, it's the plague furnace. spells that can make our large blocks of cheap troops lethal in combat(spears+death frenzy and poison spell, and wither if you're lucky). slaves that can actually kill stuff now. the poisoned wind mortar. the death globes on poisoned wind globadiers. the vermin lord. all of the awesome upgrades for our lords. and one or two other things i'm probably missing.

yes you don't have to take half the army if you don't want to, but the fact that half our army is capable of some serious damage says that the 'flavor of skaven' has changed. maybe that's good, maybe that's bad, but skaven have definitely changed quite a bit.
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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Fleshcrafter
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Clanrat
Foegnasher
Nov 6 2009, 12:28 AM
i still can't deal with all the T test you have to take with the plague furnace. i wont be useing it.

I will gladly sacrifice my rats lives... to further the suffering of my opponents. Or at least for laughs. :P
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
Fleshcrafter
Nov 6 2009, 02:13 PM
Foegnasher
Nov 6 2009, 12:28 AM
i still can't deal with all the T test you have to take with the plague furnace.  i wont be useing it.

I will gladly sacrifice my rats lives... to further the suffering of my opponents. Or at least for laughs. :P

ain't that the skaven spirit at it's best? :D
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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carcharoth
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Slayer of Lizardmen
Quote:
 
yes you don't have to take half the army if you don't want to, but the fact that half our army is capable of some serious damage says that the 'flavor of skaven' has changed. maybe that's good, maybe that's bad, but skaven have definitely changed quite a bit.
a necessary change. our shooting has been nerfed, and 2d6 WL is gone. and, with an abundance of stubborn/unbreakable/ultra-killy units in other armies, combat res is not all that helpful anymore.
So, should we be stuck killing our enemies with our mighty ws3 s3 attacks?


Quote:
 
all of the awesome upgrades for our lords.
such as?
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
juct found the new awesome piece of awesomeness... i saw mean girls the other day... the thing shredder... wow. :blink: impact hits plus arty dice worth of auto hits... run 2 clanrat units side by side and have two of these things charge in with one unit... cant imagine losing to too many units... just insane when combined with a bell unit and maybe a flanking doomwheel...

is there anything in the list that doesnt cause impact hits...
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Blitz
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Mad Skaven Strategic Genius that Sucks At Painting
Hehe, I already said the Shredders are la creme de la creme of skaven technology, APART from the hamster wheel
Warlord Bloodfang
 
Warlord Bloodfang
Nov 10 2009, 12:36 AM
Quote:
 
Actually Bladder blabbed.

:lol:
Sounds like it could be a new Phink. Bladdering: Typing before you think. :P [/color]

Not a typo mate. I liked the name Blitz inadvertantly gave him.


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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
yeah but they seem over the top... i mean really not many have mentioned them... but as everyone knows most games are won in the combat phase... two of these charging in conjunction with a clanrat unit should break any other inf unit in the game... any... unless they are stubborn and then they might just tear them apart in a few turns... auto hitting in combat is incredible... i would rather 2 of these in combat than a doomwheel...
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Tunnel Rat
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Patron of the Lurking and the Sneaky-Sneaky
Foegnasher
Nov 5 2009, 11:28 PM
i still can't deal with all the T test you have to take with the plague furnace.  i wont be useing it.

HPA looks solid, the doomwheels a little TOO wacky for my tastes, but i love the new wapons teams. poisond wind mortar and doomflayer FTW!
Right, not sold on it either. Sounds worse if you plan to equip your Plague Priest with a plague censer- you'd have to roll T checks for your plague monks twice!

I really can't wait to see what everyone here does for their HPAs. Would be a cool idea for a Painting Competition month! *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

-Hmm, tunneling Globadiers... interesting...

-The champions are customizable. You can upgrade them and equip them with stuff. Seems cool on paper. A champion armed with a weeping blade? Why thank you!

A few questions came up while reading through my book:
1) Reading through the Warlord mounts: Are all 3 considered to be on 40mm bases? Including the War-Litter?

2) The Vermin Lord is now a large target and is referred to as a monster. Does that mean it's on a 50mm base or would it still be on 40mm? I think it's now on a 50mm. There aren't any models (that I know of, anyway) that are large targets and are on 40mm.

3) Are we to assume that all the weapon teams are on cavalry bases? Looking at the Doom Flayer and it seems to be bigger than that... like 40mm big. The explanation of the weapon teams seem to fit as it doesn't specify any size whatsoever. Did I miss something?
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Wafflebob
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Chieftain
The problem with the thing-shredders is that they are not very tough. They are SUPER nasty when they get the charge, but in the couple of games I've watched or played with new skaven the thing-shredders are usually dropped by shooting or magic long before they reach melee, even when under the protection of their parent unit.
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