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TalkBloodBowl.com going offline; or... GW really effin' up here
Topic Started: 4th November 2009 - 06:33 PM (1,651 Views)
war-seer kindari
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wardancer
Nov 5 2009, 02:13 PM
I wrote a letter to them, lets see if they will answer to it. I think others should othe same. If they start getting lots of protest letters after every stupid move like that, maybe they will really re-consider next time.

it will do little use. i have sent them several letters over the course of the year in protest to thier self-destroying methods. nothing has ever detered them.
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wardancer
Chieftain
well, thats probably because it was isolated effort- if they start getting thousands of letter, they will maybe really rethink what they are doing..
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war-seer kindari
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probably, but i think they redirect all incoming fan based mail to thier junk box....lol....but it sucks.... <_<
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scrivener
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*toot*

The legal department is different from the marketing department, and so would operate with different goals.

I think the main thing that got this guy shot down was because of his donations button. Requesting donations from the site's users to manage the site in exchange for providing the site to these same users ultimately equates to income in exhange for services. Think of it as similar to asking customers if they'll like to pay for their donuts in order for you to continue running the donut shop so that you can continue providing donuts to them. I remember a road stall once that tried to bypass the laws that require a licence to sell liquor by giving away free alcohol in exchange for donations. Same difference, regardless of whether or not he's actually making a profit or a loss on the maintenance costs.

Run a google search and you'll get "bloodbowlcentral.com", "bloodbowlonline.com", "bloodbowl.org", "blood-bowl.net" etc. which don't seem to be getting smacked around right now, so on the face of it, it doesn't look like a megacrackdown on trademark names, which some people might be fearing. I'm guessing that it ultimately came down to the fact that JohnnyP was asking for donations which got the lawyers' attention. He had a site which attracted members via bloodbowl, offered the service of providing a source of information and discussion on bloodbowl, and requested money in order to continue providing this service (essentially off GW's IP). It may have been an honest request for simple reasons, but once money comes into the picture, that's when the line is crossed from fanbase to business.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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bloodbowlonline.com has moved towards another URL and blood-bowl.net (the NAF) is also moving towards another URL, as things stand at this point.

Greetz
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SneakyRodent
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scrivener
Nov 6 2009, 04:55 AM
The legal department is different from the marketing department, and so would operate with different goals.

I think the main thing that got this guy shot down was because of his donations button. Requesting donations from the site's users to manage the site in exchange for providing the site to these same users ultimately equates to income in exhange for services. Think of it as similar to asking customers if they'll like to pay for their donuts in order for you to continue running the donut shop so that you can continue providing donuts to them. I remember a road stall once that tried to bypass the laws that require a licence to sell liquor by giving away free alcohol in exchange for donations. Same difference, regardless of whether or not he's actually making a profit or a loss on the maintenance costs.

Run a google search and you'll get "bloodbowlcentral.com", "bloodbowlonline.com", "bloodbowl.org", "blood-bowl.net" etc. which don't seem to be getting smacked around right now, so on the face of it, it doesn't look like a megacrackdown on trademark names, which some people might be fearing. I'm guessing that it ultimately came down to the fact that JohnnyP was asking for donations which got the lawyers' attention. He had a site which attracted members via bloodbowl, offered the service of providing a source of information and discussion on bloodbowl, and requested money in order to continue providing this service (essentially off GW's IP). It may have been an honest request for simple reasons, but once money comes into the picture, that's when the line is crossed from fanbase to business.

This is an excellent of explanation of the legalities behind the decision.

However, just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should. I still feel that alienating your fan base in this manner is really self destructive for a company, but hey, I suppose while people are still buying their stuff then they feel easier flexing their legal muscles.

And yes, I am still going to buy the new Army book tomorrow :P
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Morgoth
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The discussion on this matter here in Denmark, have some copyright dudes explaining, that if you fail to go after those who violate your copyright, then you stand a worse chance later, if you get a situation where it really matters.

If the sardines are allowed to crap in your pond, then the marlins can claim: "They allowed others to do it. Then we can too." And have a strong case.

If so, then it is understandable that GW reacts, but it's no excuse for their hostile approach. No need to be rude while slitting throats :pmaster:
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wardancer
Chieftain
they could have simply asked him to remove donations button. Besides it was what it said- DONATIONS. You can hardly earn money on donations and yo uare not selling anything and people can still use the website for free, they only pay if they think its worth supporting so really, dont see the problem. It was not some weird way of trying to bypass copyright laws to earn money.
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scrivener
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*toot*

From what he said, all they asked him really was to remove the donations button and change the domain name (Bloodbowl is a trademark). From what I understood from his post, they didn't actually shut his site down, he did so because he couldn't afford the hassle and cost of changing the domain name.

He was certainly not deliberately trying to bypass the law or make a profit, it's one of those incidents when people break complex and little-known laws simply because they weren't aware. They weren't taking him on because he was draining potential profit from them, that would definitely be not the case and it would be silly if they thought so. The suggestion is that it was to do mainly with trademark protection, and other businesses (in the broadest sense of that word, refer to my explanation on why donations are still income) being run on your trademark would probably come first in the line of attack.

Yeah, what the lawyers did was a bit brutish, but hey, they're lawyers. Their job is to enforce the legal rights of GW in the most effective way against the notoriously intangible, faceless and elusive internet masses. Their job does not include PR, advertising nor selling GW products.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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war-seer kindari
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true, but they still could seem a bit human while doing so.
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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

http://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&n...order=0&thold=0

Well, the Skaven Armybook may wery well be the last dime I ever spend on GW.
:angry: *censored, censored and censored* :(
Soon they will probably close every forum that uses a GW copyright word. BAH.
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blader4411
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*Sighs*
Well, it seems that FUMBBL will not close down, as Christer (The Head Admin) of FUMBBL seems to have reached a compromise with GW, which involves removing the rules section and a few other factors not yet removed. I'm deeply dissapointed with GW, but at least FUMBBL should be sticking around...

-Danielle
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Rhellion
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Morgoth
Nov 12 2009, 12:11 PM
http://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&n...order=0&thold=0

Well, the Skaven Armybook may wery well be the last dime I ever spend on GW.
:angry: *censored, censored and censored* :(
Soon they will probably close every forum that uses a GW copyright word. BAH.

Big difference when you have a java version that lists and uses GW rules...

* the Website contains copies of Blood Bowl statistics and rules;
* the Java Bowl programme contains various pieces of GW Blood Bowl art including the Blood Bowl pitch and Blood Bowl logo; and
* the Java Bowl programme uses all the Blood Bowl rules and statistics for each model.

Does this not let people play without paying for rules? It's pretty clear it is a copyright violation.
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Decker_cky
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Javabbowl is NOT owned by fumbbl. All fummbl does is facilitate match-ups made using a totally different program.

Javabbowl requires you to own a legal copy of blood bowl. Any player ignoring that is using it illegally.

Really, all the letter means to Fumbbl is that they tell you "find and download javabbowl version whatever. It uses LRB4 rules." They can't host or link to those...fine. They have to be clear that they're unofficial. Fine. Put "Unofficial Online Blood Bowl League" on the page title.
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CRC
Clanrat
Rhellion
Nov 12 2009, 12:42 PM
Does this not let people play without paying for rules? It's pretty clear it is a copyright violation.

The Blood Bowl rules are free. Anyone can play without paying for the rules.
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