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Unit Sizes; 21 slave, 30 clanrats, 20 stormvermin?
Topic Started: 30th October 2009 - 06:48 PM (604 Views)
stoobacca
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Stormvermin
21 slave, 30 clanrats, 20 stormvermin? would that be right?

my question is this:

i've noticed a lot of 25 rat blocks and some people suggest taking it to 30. Is that so you can soak up a lot of fire and still have maximum rank bonus (20)? When i play my dwarves i max out at 25 so that if i take a few casualties i can still have the max rank bonus. Is 30 suggested for skaven because they're generally not so well armored and will take more casualties so more of a buffer is needed?

sory for the rambling question! :wacko:
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4fr0
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Clanrat
i usually make units of 30 clannies, 1st of all because it looks nice (its a horde army isnt it?) ;) second because what you said, they can take some punishment and still finish combat outnumbering/winning.

Mutate:
Btw max rank bonus you get is +3, its every full rank you have (of at least 5 models) at the start of combat.
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Halceon
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Theoretical warp-physicist
30 is a good number, because then you can have +3 rank bonus, one extra rank to soak up fire AND a sixth rat per rank for extra attacks.
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stoobacca
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Stormvermin
ah ok, so 6 x 4 then?
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Unwanted
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stoobacca
Oct 30 2009, 03:49 PM
ah ok, so 6 x 4 then?

That's how I run my Clanrats. I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with the others, depends on their numbers.
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Silverback
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I think the 21 slaves is a no brainer, but the numbers and frontage on CRs and SV depends a lot on the style of play and maybe on who you most often play against.

I used to take 2x 30 CRs and 1x 25 CRs but I ma really rethinking this. I am considering the idea that with a bell I can have a much smaller CR unit to push it (like 18) and then use the saved points to convert one of my loose CR units into an SV unit which will be slightliy more survivable with their heavy armor and shield.

As far as frontage, again i think you have to ask the question of what you want out of them, and this playing itnto equipment as well.

30 rats 5 wide with HW and Shield have to lose 11 rats before they drop below their max rank bonus, and with the light armor and shiled they will be slightly more durable in terms of how many rounds of combat your foe needs to grind through 11 rats.

On the other hand, 6 wide and 5 deep using spears means if you have initiative and survive the first round, in subsequent rounds you have up to 13 (the magic number!) attacks going out each turn so you might actually be able to kill something.

I have usually run my two 30 rat blocks one each of the two aforementioned setups and my 25 just hw/shield. Then I just try and position my mroe durable troops where harder hitting units are expected and the spearmen where I anticipate lighter hits.
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stoobacca
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Stormvermin
very cool. thanks for the insight :)
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Tenoshii
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This is probably a really stupid question but why 21 slaves? I'm assuming a 7x3 formation but since the new explosion rule works on ranks wouldn't it be better to have 5x4?
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Stinkhair
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Dabbling GM. Clanrat loon. 6th Edition Aficionado. Bitter.

21-strong blocks of Slaves is because of the oddities of rounding.

Units have to test for Panic if they lose 25% or more of their numbers in one phase.

25% of 20 is 5

25% of 21 is (rounding up from 5.25) 6

This makes it harder for your opponents to panic your slaves in a single round of shooting. Not much harder, but for 2 points, most people consider it well worth it.

It also helps you outnumber any nice, neat, 20-strong blocks your opponents may be fielding. ^_^



In response to the original poster - I run Clanrats in 30's (5 Wide, 6 Deep), Slaves in 21's, and Stormvermin at 25.

I don't take ranged weapons, and I tend to rely on sheer numbers to get me across the board - So I need those big units of Clanrats and Slaves to be as large, durable, and resistant to panic as possible. ;) Most of my units tend to get across the table with full rank bonus, as a result.

Stormvermin... Are simply too expensive to run in a unit larger than 25 - But their additional armour tends to serve them well - And I tend to employ other units to screen them from the worst fire.


Note : All advice here is with regards to 6th edition Skaven. ;) Whether it's good advice in a week or two remains to be seen..
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Rat Pack
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I tend to run units of clannies w/ hw+s in units of 30. These are positioned in the middle of my lines. I use units of spears in blocks of 25, more on the flanks to take on lighter units. Slaves... always 21!
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nemesis1020
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Ok, first post on this site and brand new to skaven (picking them up as a second army, dark elves being my first).

I found this thread very informative, but have a couple of additional questions for you Skaven experts!

Slaves: typically fielded in 5x4 units of 20 (or 21 :D ). I would guess they are seldomly equipped with Spear, Sling, or Shield in order to keep these units as cheap as possible, is this correct? Also, are Champions or Musicians ever fielded in these units?

Clanrats: typically fielded in 5x6 or 6x5 units of 30. I read in the "7th Edition Rules Forum" that equipping them with Shield and Spear seems to be the way to go now because of the potential buffing Skaven magic could place on the units and because the point costs arent really that much more, is this correct? Also, are these units typically fielded with Full Command?

Stormvermin: typically fielded in 5x5 units of 25 with full command. This unit seems to be debated on whether its extra cost over clanrats is really worth it.

Did I capture the general consensus of how these units are perceived and most commonly fielded??? Thanks for your replies!

nemesis1020
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

There have been tacticas and discussions on it regarding Slaves being fielded with Spears, Slings, or Shields. Some have managed to employ them with relative succes, though this does depend on the tactics you use. If they're simple fodder, then it's a bit of a no-brainer to field them naked. Though, as a 'cheap' bump for enemies trying to flank you, it could be a nice thought... I, personally, always field Slaves with a Musician. I think this will ESPECIALLY be the case with the 7th edition, as the +1 on ties for break tests will mean your Slaves will hold, instead of running off and being destroyed. Combine that with massed shooting on the unit against the Slaves and well, you do the math.

Clanrats with Shield and Spear will remain to be a matter of debate. Do you want those extra attacks over a loss of armour saves, or not? In addition to, of course, the way people play their armies, as Spears don't work when you charge. ;)... In 6th edition I never took a Clanrat Champion, though I might have to revise my tactics here due to the changed Lead from the Back rules.

Stormvermin are a unit I might be fielding more. Despite their higher cost, the loss of 0-1 means you can field multiple units, which might warrant considering them... It's still something I have to look at, but definitely might see a change there.

Greetz
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