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2000pt Karond Kar Themed List
Topic Started: 24th August 2009 - 09:42 AM (694 Views)
smiler6310
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The Grim Squeaker
Morning!

My first ever army was Dark Elves and I thought I'd share my favourite themed army. The theme is the city of Karond Kar.

Karond Kar is the centre of the DE slave trade and also known as the city of beasts as it where Hydras, Manticores and Dragons are raised. As well as this Harpies live in the surrounding cliffs. Armies from Karond Kar are said to distinguishable as their shield motif is normally a beast.

So this is the list

'Nerein the Cruel'
Master, Armour of Darkness, Deathpiercer, Manticore

'Mistress Vyela'
Lv 1 Sorceress, 2 Dispel Scrolls

'City Guard'
20 Warriors, Full Command , Shields, Warbanner - Sorceress here
10 RXBmen, Shields, Musician
10 RXBmen, Shields, Musicain

'Mercanary Crewmen from the ship Leviathon'
14 Corsairs, Full Command, AHW's, Sea Serpent Standard

'Outriders'
5 Dark Riders, RXBows, Musician

5 Harpes
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

'City Nobles'
Cold One Chariot
Cold One Chariot

'Scouts from the Poisenfang Tribe'
5 Shades, Great Weapons

War Hydra
War Hydra

Total: 1999pts

The colour scheme is Black and green. The City Guard and the Master all have shields with a squid motif, while the Corsairs and Warriors standards are topped with a squid. The two hydra fit the theme more than some bolt throwers and will provide a screen for the manticore (which is somewhat fragile and vunerable on its own!).

So what do you think?

Moved to Warhammer General Discussion, just for tidyness ^_^ ~ Lughtigern
Skaven - They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins.
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Battle_Seeker_Clron
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Clanrat
I love the fluff background you have for your army.

I have never been a big fan of the Manticore. T5 for large target monsters just doesn't cut it for me.

Also you lack a good bit of magic defense 3DD 2 scrolls won't stand up to many magic based lists.

I love the corsair models, but Never can seem to use them effectively for their point costs.

I would cut out the corsairs. Cut the shades put in a nice unit of black guard with ring of hotek on the champ with ASF banner.

That unit will never fail you. Cut a cold one chariot if you need to skim points for them. Your Hydras should support that unit quite well.

That is all I can think of off the top of my head. I don't have my book with me at work.

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smiler6310
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The Grim Squeaker
Hey Battleseeker thanks for the nice words and good tips! A friend of mine wants to run a 2250pt tournement soon - I want to kick his butt while retaining the theme Dev So I've tweaked the list retained most of the fluff and made it stronger.

What do you think?

'Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar'
Dreadlord, Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth, Caledors Bane, Sea Dragon Cloak, Black Dragon

'Mistress Vyela - Nerein's Wife'
Lv 1 Sorceress, 2 Dispel Scrolls

'Mistress Falcuren - Temple Adept'
Cauldron of Blood, BSB

'City Guard'
10 RXBmen, Shields, Musician
10 RXBmen, Shields, Musicain

'Outriders'
5 Dark Riders, RXBows, Musician

5 Harpes
5 Harpies

'Nerein's Personnal Guard'
14 Black Guard, Tower Master, Ring of Hotek, Standard Bearer, Banner of Murder

'City Nobles'
5 Cold One Knights, Musician

'Scouts from the Poisenfang Tribe'
5 Shades

'Ravens Claws Battery'
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers (Sorceress in here)

War Hydra

Total: 2250pts

So the colour scheme and theme remains. Magic is still weak but I'm not a huge fan and prefer my DE to be more combat orientated, though I've taken some steps to boost the magic defense with some Null Talismens. The hydra banner is awesome, it will boost the COK attacking power and fits the fluff too! :lol:

The list is strong I think; it has speed, hits hard, can potentially put out 60 RXB shots a turn not including the RBT's heavier shots. I'ts also strong in Psychology as most of the units cause fear or terror or are simply immune to it. Those units that do test will hopefully use the Dreadlords strong leadership and if that fails reroll with the BSB nearby.

Am 2 points over though, any ideas on where to drop them?
Skaven - They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins.
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Battle_Seeker_Clron
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Clanrat
That is real close to the list I run for my Darkies.

I proxied 4 games with a black dragon and found that my forces were lacking.

Unless you know for sure you are going to play Lizzies there are better weapons than caledors bane. Especially since you don't have a ward save on your 500+ pt model. The pendant of khaeleth is to strong to pass up.

You would be better off taking the pendant instead of 2 talismans.

Drop Caledors and take crimson death. Static str 6 cannot be modified 25pts.

Do your best to keep him within 12" of the ring of hotek and people will avoid trying to cast on him. Or they will dump everything into him and miscast.

You will find much more use out of the banner of hag graef instead of armor piercing. With infinite hatred, ASF and Stubborn black guard have plenty of staying power.

If you want to free up some points give your dreadlord blood armor. Your dreadlord should be getting the charge whenever he wants and will do wounds lowering his armor save to max with a sea dragon cloak. Plus the pendant is on him now.

So all together your dreadlord will start with a 3+ armor save then go to a 1+ after he does 2 wounds and will have the reverse ward save of bad assness.

Sorry I can't give the exact numbers since I don't have my book with me right now. I grabbed lizzies instead of DE on my way out the door.

See what you think of those. I believe your list is very solid. These few changes could work maybe a little better.


MUTATED:

I think if you takes shields off your Xbowmen and try those few changes you should be under 2250
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smiler6310
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The Grim Squeaker
Again thanks for the tips. Have mutated the above list.

Decided for 11pts more the Cauldron was simply a better BSB choice. Can give blessing to the Knights, Dragon, Hydra and the BG. Whilst giving ward saves to units in crisis. Fluff will require some serious thought though! :P

The Pendant is now on the Dreadlord for reasons mentioned but I'm sticking with Caledors Bane for that S7 chariot popping hit...it also means he can finish wounded HE dragons and Bloodthirsters when the RBT's are done with them!

ASF on the Black Guard is nice but with a +1A or Killing Blow COB buff they should pretty much take on almost anyone with the AP banner (Am worried about bouncing off of harder units ie Chaos Knights/Black Orcs etc). I'd rather need to get the charge off than be charged and then bounce off with ASF and get cut down. Also kinda makes them too cheesey and 'HE like' for me in all honesty.

Apreciate the tips though mate please keep'em coming! :)
Skaven - They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins.
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Chieftain Cazgar
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Prophet of Plastic
firstly, this is the wrong place to post that. i can't move it anymore, but suffice to say, lesser races painting and hobby is for lesser races PAINTING AND HOBBY stuff. not army lists. you need some pictures in here.

secondly, i much prefer the first list you posted.

if you're going for a list themed around monsters and riding around on a pirate ship enslaving people then you should have a list with monsters and corsairs and the like.

it's your army and you can do what you want, but personally i just think it's wrong to make a themed list and then turn it into a cookie cutter DE list because someone thinks you arn't taking the optimum choices.

my guard army is themed around old school russian tactics, so i took unit choices reflecting that. a lot of people like my army because whilst it doesn't win all that often it looks and plays to the theme i set out to achieve. but like i said, if you'd rather win and disregard your theme that's upto you.
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smiler6310
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The Grim Squeaker
Chieftain Cazgar;

Firstly for intially posting in the wrong section. While searching through it I noticed two Dwarf army lists in there and thought that was the place to put it. As I'm clearly in the wrong I apologise for that.

Secondly the Theme choice and selection for 2000pt list will remain the same regardless of others opinions be they better or worse-as you said its my army etc. However, the 'cookie cutter list' was bought up as I mentioned in my second post. Some friends of mine are having a small tournement and as its my best mate running it I wanted a hard list to kick his butt with. I'm sure he'll be going all out to beat me so I intend to do the same. Battle_Seeker_Clron was good enough to read and reply to my first and I wanted his opinion on the list I'm looking at running in the tournement.

The weaker Manticore has been replaced by a Dragon but its still a monster. The Corsairs have been replaced by Black Guard and I'm putting them down as household bodyguards. The hydra is still in. The city guard and the colour scheme are still the same. I tried to keep the theme but also make the list stronger and more competitive at the same time-is that so bad?
Skaven - They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins.
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Battle_Seeker_Clron
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Clanrat
smiler6310
Aug 28 2009, 10:55 AM
Again thanks for the tips. Have mutated the above list.

Decided for 11pts more the Cauldron was simply a better BSB choice. Can give blessing to the Knights, Dragon, Hydra and the BG. Whilst giving ward saves to units in crisis. Fluff will require some serious thought though! :P

The Pendant is now on the Dreadlord for reasons mentioned but I'm sticking with Caledors Bane for that S7 chariot popping hit...it also means he can finish wounded HE dragons and Bloodthirsters when the RBT's are done with them!

ASF on the Black Guard is nice but with a +1A or Killing Blow COB buff they should pretty much take on almost anyone with the AP banner (Am worried about bouncing off of harder units ie Chaos Knights/Black Orcs etc). I'd rather need to get the charge off than be charged and then bounce off with ASF and get cut down. Also kinda makes them too cheesey and 'HE like' for me in all honesty.

Apreciate the tips though mate please keep'em coming! :)

The updated list looks solid. I love the Cauldron. It makes such a great BSB. I'm sure you will be able to think of some great fluff to go along with it. Every DE city has to have those crazy witches running amok.


Cazgar:

Firstly you can not fault him for posting where others posted lists of different armies. When there are clearly other posts made recently asking for similar advice. If i was going to post any army list I needed help with I would have done the same thing since nothing was said to anyone about it.

Second I was just putting in my 2 cents. If you want to call it cookie cutter them that is what you call it. I was not insulting or rude about anything I said. I love his theme I love his idea. I feel your post came off a bit brash and confrontational about some opinions on the internet. In the end it's not about winning or losing it's about having fun with those you play with.

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smiler6310
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The Grim Squeaker
Hey Battleseeker,

Again thanks for your help in all regards. Have decided to lose the Pendant on the Dragonlord. If need be the Cauldron can supply the Ward Save. I've dropped the musicians from the RXBmen and given the Dreadlord the Ring of Darkness to protect him and the Dragon from shooting. Would hate to loose such an important mount before he even crossed the board! With the 5 spare points the shades get AHW's.

So it looks like this now;

'Nerein the Cruel - Drachau of Karond Kar'
Dreadlord, Armour of Darkness, Ring of Darkness, Caledors Bane, Sea Dragon Cloak, Black Dragon

'Malchior the Forbidden - Nerein's Nephew '
Lv 1 Sorceror, 2 Dispel Scrolls

'Mistress Vyela - Fromerly Nerein's Wife now Temple Adept'
Cauldron of Blood, BSB

'City Guard'
10 RXBmen, Shields,
10 RXBmen, Shields,

'Outriders'
5 Dark Riders, RXBows, Musician

5 Harpes
5 Harpies

'Nerein's Personnal Guard'
14 Black Guard, Tower Master, Ring of Hotek, Standard Bearer, Banner of Murder

'City Nobles'
5 Cold One Knights, Musician

'Scouts from the Poisenfang Tribe'
5 Shades, AHW's

'Ravens Claws Battery'
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers (Sorceress in here)

War Hydra

Total: 2250pts

Ok fluff explaining. Firstly Nerein himself is not my idea. He is mentioned in the third Darkblade novel. Its his son who tries to arrest Malus on his return to Karond Kar and is subsequently killed.

The cauldron;

Distraught at the loss of her first born son, Vyela became more and more subdued, spending all her waking hours in a trance like state. This culmanated in the slaughter of all her body servents. When Nerein discovered her covered from head to toe in her servants blood he knew she was gone from him and sent to the Hags in the City's Temple.

Due to former position, wealth donated by Nerein and the fact she was clearly touched by Khaine she rose quickly to a high position within the temple. Now she accompanies her husband whenever he leaves for battle, bringing a cauldron as sign of Khaines favour to the Karond Kar forces.

The Sorceror;

No fluff so to speak but I remembered I've got an old male DE sorceror model.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Mh2wMdq88jI/SkHQ...00/sorcerer.jpg

The model has 2 scrolls on it and for me is perfect for a scroll caddy. The model being male also explains why its only a Lv1, as male sorceror aren't formerly trained and have to study in secret. So the sorceror would be at a lower level than the sorceress.

Any good? Changes to fluff/list?
Skaven - They are the dark side of our souls, come to destroy us for our sins.
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