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Good Vs. Evil
Topic Started: 17th August 2009 - 07:34 PM (1,181 Views)
Morgoth
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chieftainskritchskritch
Aug 18 2009, 07:37 AM
In the act of taking what you want, you hurt the person who has what you want. General consensus = bad.

And how do you think the possesers gained the wealth in the first place?
By owning the means of power, you gain the right of being the Good Guy?
As in: The victor writes the history books!
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Halceon
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By DnD definitions truly evil is someone who in every possible situation evaluates the possible personal benefit above all else. There are multiple layers to it, like giving up a piece of benefit now for a greater reward later, but still aiming for greater personal gain. Currently, it seems only Skaven live this to the full extent. Chaos creatures all live in service of the gods. The gods, well, they're gods, they can't die and thus have no actual interest in success, it's just fun. OK, vampire counts are also generally evil. And actually halflings also are somewhat evil-ish. With their inability to go without food for more then a few hours they MUST be thinking about their own good constantly. That's kind of it.
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Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


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scrivener
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*toot*

But everyone always, at some basic level, do whatever their mind determines as a personal benefit, even if we drill it down to the happy hormone triggers that a martyr may get while sacrificing himself for the greater good. :P The high elves serve the greater good so people won't destroy the world and muck up their part of it, so they can live peacefully and happily ever after, is that not a personal benefit? ;)
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Halceon
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But it is "Oh no! they're trying to destroy the world! And my piece of land with it!" not "No-no, they try break-break my stuff! And world with it!"
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
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Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


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mrtn
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Halceon
Aug 18 2009, 10:03 AM
Chaos creatures all live in service of the gods.

I disagree with this. I think most chaos worshippers are trying to make a deal with a powerful patron, rather than being fanatical "I'll do anything for god"-types.
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
I think most chaos worshippers are trying to make a deal with a powerful patron, rather than being fanatical "I'll do anything for god"-types.


Mrtn's right, most followers of chaos are trying to make a name for themselves by carrying out their patron's will, thus earning rewards, powers, immortality.

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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Chieftain Cazgar
Aug 17 2009, 11:23 PM
best way to define it is:

good guys defend. bad guys attack.

*concurs*...

In regard to the discussion whether Chaos would in some cases be considered good, but with bad intentions, I'd have to say that this can go in both ways. I mean, after all, whereas the Imperium in 40k is considered to be good, there are also Inquisitors (good) trying to destroy others in order to make sure the bad guys can't make use of them.

As such, good/ evil is in background terms easiest to define by their intentions, in my book.

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Chieftian_Efin
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the whole of warhammer is gray, skaven just wat a spot in the sun, abet at the very top of the pile but who dosen't? Skaven are also have a better sence that their lives wont mean anything through glory hogging, unlike some knights. and we also know that they only way up the leaderboard is for someone to go down.

brets on the other hand are king aruthor's court so to speak, they are civelrous to a fault, and what a fault it is.

empire is frekin renisance rome and they current'y hold teh top of the pile but they are currupt in there very essence,

All Things Chaos are teacher's pets (sometimes quite literaly)

lizzys are in fact the only race i know that don't have a motive for anything but defence, exept there in everyone's way.

dwarfs are the greedyest of all, they make you pay for there wars.

elves are just narsistick, who else would wear lion skin and bring a pet lion with them to battle?

DE are just sadistic but they can be useful sometimes. woodelves are hippies with bows.

ogers are scared about being eaten by there "god" which the highelves gave them (freking panzy hipocryts).

dogs of war anre no longer useful so theyre just disbanded but they were jsut trying to make a liveing

greenskins just wana have fun and thy like loud noises, like the squishing of armored 'eads.

so everyone has a reason to be good and evil there is only grey or maby there is a lack of anycolor all together since thee are more motives under the sun than there are steryo types.

pluss all races have infighting we(skaven if you don't know) just know that the deaths of our troops mean a longer life for us, and they are willing to give it like the imperium's Psy chorus but on a bigger scale, and without all the psy nonsence. we still like explodeing heads though.
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Halceon
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We should totally write a story about a truly benevolent skaven clan.
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
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Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


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warpturkey
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I dont know that a benevolent race of any kind could be created.The way I see it: If you exist and make any effort to do so, there is going to be a streak of selfishness in there.But if you end your own existance, then you have not taken into consideration any one who cares enough to want you around.You cant win. If,from the day your born you sit on a mountain top somewhere and do nothing your lazy and inconsiderate.If you throw your hat in the ring and try to effect the world in any way then your gonna have to step on somebody's toes along the way.
All that can be done is to operate within your own definitions of good and bad.But on a global scale good and evil cannot truly exist. There is basiclly only people trying to fill the time between birth and death with whatever their environment has deemed valid.
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blader4411
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warpturkey
Aug 18 2009, 05:35 PM
I dont know that a benevolent race of any kind could be created.The way I see it: If you exist and make any effort to do so, there is going to be a streak of selfishness in there.But if you end your own existance, then you have not taken into consideration any one who cares enough to want you around.You cant win. If,from the day your born you sit on a mountain top somewhere and do nothing your lazy and inconsiderate.If you throw your hat in the ring and try to effect the world in any way then your gonna have to step on somebody's toes along the way.
All that can be done is to operate within your own definitions of good and bad.But on a global scale good and evil cannot truly exist. There is basiclly only people trying to fill the time between birth and death with whatever their environment has deemed valid.

YAY! Anyone who wants wise advice from now on, contact Warpturkey!

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Tunnel Rat
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Legendary Battles has an ally chart that may help you.

According to the chart Ogres are common allies to all while Lizardmen are occasional allies to everyone with the exception of Ogres who are common allies. The Tomb Kings seems to be the most picky.

Ogres and Lizzies shouldn't be a problem as they can fill out any odd spot. Heck, you can even have Ogres and Lizzies on both sides for that matter as there are multiple factions within the race anyway. As for Tomb Kings, you might have to add some fluff rules.
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Punk-Rat
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Halceon
Aug 18 2009, 11:08 AM
We should totally write a story about a truly benevolent skaven clan.

yeah that clan are slaves lol
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blader4411
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Punk-Rat
Aug 23 2009, 02:09 PM
Halceon
Aug 18 2009, 11:08 AM
We should totally write a story about a truly benevolent skaven clan.

yeah that clan are slaves lol

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I can agree with that :P

-Killfang
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Scarecr0w14
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