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How to beat Vampire Counts?; help! stoopid dead-things kill kill !
Topic Started: 8th August 2008 - 12:25 AM (799 Views)
Ner' von Tuxis
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I was playing a 1000 pts game against VCs. Was fairly totally annihilated, somehow managed to make it only a SV for the VCs...

The constant fear checks were pain, even with chieftain + 3 ranks you will fail it sooner or later. My opponent fielded BKs as well, their charge is pretty sick... I couldn't give my opponent any extra time because of summon ghoul etc. So I tried to get into combat asap. I did well in the center, until the BKs joined in. Then I started losing heavily. Note that the BKs had a vampire with them (dread knight)

So what kinda army would you fellow rats suggest against VCs in a game under 2000 pts? :unsure:
Stoopid things die die!

My army diary: http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=26587
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The Buoyancy of Water

I've now played the Vamps quite a lot, and got my second win (out of 5 games) on Wednesday. I think you pinpointed one of the main ways to deal with them in your own post: take units that are immune to psycology!! So, plague monks, rat ogres and plague censer bearers should all be in there. Also, the Sacred Standard is very useful. Also, you should definately have at least one fighty character in there, though a couple of warlock engineers would help with dispelling the movement spells.

Next important point is always target their characters in close combat!! On average rolling, a plague priest with a flail should easily take a hero level vampire out. However, watch out for challenging unit champions: if the unit has a raise spell cast on them he is the first one back to his feet. Therefore, if you charge you shouldn't challenge but instead make sure your character can hit his vampire and use your own champion if his challenges. If he charges I would challenge. Then you could get plenty of overkill against the unit champ before it is your turn and you can challenge again, forcing the vamp to accept or bog off to the rear rank.

Next, Skaven really need those flank charges against undead infantry. This is because most of the time their SCR will equal yours, taking away you main advantage. Anything that removes their ranks is good. I charged in the flank with 15 slaves while clanrats fought to the front and the 26ish skeletons and vampire were dead(er) after two turns!! And finally, if you are targetting the vampires enough then you will slowly wear down his magic. I think it is more important to stop his extra movement spells then his raising. Once the vamps are dead you can easily smash up those extra troops, but let the vamps get you in the flank and you are dead!!

So, to summarise what I have learnt:

1) Immune to Psycology is your friend
2) Attack the Vampires at every oppurtunity
3) Be careful with your challenges
4) Take lots of troops and set up those flank charges
5) Dispel movement, not healing (most of the time)

For a list (1500pts) I'd say:

2xPlague Priest, one with Liber Bubonicus for extra dispel dice, other with whatever, both with flails. You could easily take the LB off if you don't like it.

Engineer with 2xDispel Scroll

2+Clanrat units. A couple of ratling guns/throwers wouldn't hurt...

As many slaves as possible

Some globadiers to keep those knights on their toes

2xPlague Monk unit. Rank them 7 wide to get more attacks.

Rat Ogres

Plague Censer Bearers

Use any remaining points to bulk out core units I would say. Hope all this helps!!

I used to have a tally of wins, losses and draws, but I've totally lost count so will instead ramble for a little while...
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One of my greatest games to date was against Vampire Counts. I'm head rat of a Clan Pestilens army, so immune to psychology was VERY definitely my friend, along with the higher toughness of the plague monks. I have large slave units that look very intimidating compared to the smaller plague monk units, so my opponent charged the slave units with his black coach and got tied up. I shot jezzails into combat (yay Skaven!), after all, they're slaves and life is cheap. Then I flanked him with plague monks and plague censer bearers and the coach died. Jezzails with their long range were key at taking out his independent characters (aka nuisance magic types who raise lots of skellies and ghouls), and the ratling gun with my clanrat unit kept his skeleton units down to only ridiculous size. He was not running black knights, but I would probably treat them as I did the black coach... throw a spiky speedbump of slaves in front of him, then flank with tough, frenzied units.

Use all your Skaven cunning... frenzy is great against this army since psychology is such a factor for them. Shoot into your combat, especially with a slave unit. Even if the slaves break it's not going to cause break tests for your other units... throw them in the way of troublesome units and shoot 'em up. Have at least one long-range shooting unit... jezzails are fantastic for this. Target anything deadly and shoot the heck out of it before it can get close. A Plague Priest with Liber Bubonicus is good too, just try to keep him where he doesn't charge into combat.

And, of course, kill-kill everything you see!

Best of luck... that's a tough army to beat,
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A couple of points of note:

In my experience, most vampire players run the Felbats (2 wounds) - these are a nightmare for any of our ranged units, simply because they can charge them and scare them off easily. Jezzails don't last long against them.

Frenzy is definately your friend, simply for the immune to psych.

Slaves ARE better in HTH against Zombies, and are on par with Skeletons (if memory serves) for their weaponskill. Admittedly, you won't have the armor that they have, but since you get to go first, you will hopefully inflict a couple of casualties against Skelies. I would try to aim them at Zombies though, if you can.

Black Knights do not play well with Warp Lightning and Ratling Guns - so take advantage of that. Remember that you can Stand and Shoot with your Ratling Guns if they charge them (if they're running Felbats I wouldn't be surprised), and they can quite often take out a small unit of felbats.

Finally, Plague Censer Bearers are fantastic against anything you can hit with them. If they slam into a unit of Black Knights, they can quite often cause enough casualties to seriously screw them over. Use your slaves like you do in any situation - charge directors - and you can quite often land that charge against your opponent.
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The Inspector
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As a Vamps player myself, I can tell you I find ranked immune-to-psychology units a pain and fast maneuverable models with high damage output make me nervous.

The first is fairly self-explanatory: most undead units bar the Knights and character-supported units rely on the old outnumbered by fear trick to break the enemy. If the enemy doesn't fear me, I often find it difficult the break the unit through kills alone.

The second is what wins the game for a vamp opponent. Units of Wardancers, a Hydra, or Swordmasters often inflict so much damage in one turn of combat that I loose even more models through crumble. This means that I have to spend a good proportion of my next turn's power dice to repair that unit, leaving the rest of my army replenished and still weakened from the wounds suffered so far. Most anti-vamps tactic threads mention not to bother dispelling the wound replenishing spells and that is correct; instead, compensate for that and try and force your opponent to spend such spells on units that don't have a great impact in the game (undead blocks are fairly predictable).

You can really break the back of a vamp army in one decisive turn of mass damage. Unless you are facing a horrible opponent with 12+ power dice, he won't be able to heal everything at once and will be forced to prioritise units to stuff power dice into and forget about others and leave them to crumble.

Units of Plague Monks have both immune to fear going for them and mass damage output. The Censer Bearers will wreck most things they touch. If tailoring a list for vamps, I would be tempted to field two units of each in a 2000 point game. The magical-shooting of the Jezzails and Ratlings will keep any possible ethereal troops at bay, although a single fear or terror test will see them running.
“Stop! You in there; your money or your life!”
“Sir, you perhaps leave me with fewer options than you realise”

A free tip for all professional and aspiring highwaymen: do not attempt to hold up a Vampire’s Black Coach.
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Doomwheel Driver
Throw everything you have at the general and watch the army crumble...
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Gutrot Fuzzypaws
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yeah immune to psyc is a must. throw PCBs and PWGs at any BKs he takes, those toughness tests hurt. another great strat is have 2 WEs running around by themselves and throw 4D6 worth of WL at his general every turn, that usually works
There is only one feasilble tactic...
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