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Restoring the Dojo; The Return to The True Path
Topic Started: 19th May 2008 - 01:03 PM (328 Views)
Xh!n Tarat
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(Mostly) Overatted.

I am somewhat dismayed to see that the once enthusiastic, driven and committed devotees of The Black Pyjama Brigade have faded out of sight, and that this forum is now quiet and still.

I accept that I must bear a large degree of responsibility for this parlous state of affairs, as my time has been drawn away from this community, and specifically, from this dojo.

That will change.

I think it's time to bring back the terror of Clan Eshin rampant in The UnderEmpire, and to once more make our element of the overall community the most fanatical and highly indentifiable of the lot. It's time for Eshin devotees of the UE to stand up and be counted (in a suitably silent, back stabbling/ throat slashing kind of way, of course). ;)

It's time to get this house rocking again.

I am inviting both statements of commitment, and a brainstorming session of what we need to make this place the place to be seen (once more).

The place to die for!

Comrats .............
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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

Bows for the master. :ph43r:

I believe our main issue, is the fact that the Eshin list is fading from tournaments and therefore from many a gamers list of armies.

Another threat is the fact that the Eshin list is more difficult to use succesfully gamewin-wise. I believe many are thrilled by the ninje-style, but after the first losses, they lose hope. So we should promote the fun and different playstyle, for the sensei as well as for his/her opponent, this specialised force is able to deliver.

Soon I will also promote my "Clan Eshin Training Camp"
A Mordheim RPG tried out once, but waiting for improvements. Perhaps I should just start it up.
Please do check out: http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=25055 and any comments are most welcome.
Best posted in: http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=24688
It is my hope with this to gain interest in Mordheim as well as Clan Eshin.
Bakfire the Experimenter is also working on it as an on-line game.

I will be back, should more pop up.
Greetings from MorgothPosted Image Mostly Clan Eshin, occasionally Clan Husk.
Proud keeper of the Poking Stick of Doom, known to many a RPG-player Posted Image
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SingTheScreams:   "....we ain't no chaos-worshipping freaks. We be ratmen, and we do as we please......"

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MonsterZero
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Carpe Cerevisi
Please forgive my longwindedness, I am posting for the first time in a few years and am excited to come back to UE to find rumors of a new Skaven book within a year and still see much discussion on the Skaven.

My first purchase of Skaven was with the Mordheim box set. Those plastic sprues (as far as I know) had not been previously released and became the night runner box as we know it now. Prior to Mordheim, everything except clanrats were metal, VERY expensive for a horde army.

I too was discouraged after a few battles with my Clan Eshin. I still believed, however, Eshin are the one *true* Skaven Clan. The other clans need guns, bigger rats, or assistance from a hygienically challenged higher power to aid them in battle. Eshin are the essence of Skaven-dom so I refused to give up on them.

So, I mixed and matched clanrat and night-runner parts to make both my clanrat and night runner regiments. This allows me to look Eshin, and as long as I get lots of M6 rats on my opponents flanks and rear I'm a happy (rat) man.

Thanks for keeping UE going, I've been away for a couple years now, with no recollection of what my first member name was. Not that I posted much anyway.

I'll be back regularly to read and heed more... :pmaster:
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Sciencespark
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Grey Seer
Still building my 1kpt Eshin army, so haven't had time to loose wit it yet.
Should finish June and play fun torny in July.
I think the main issue is that it is difficult to know what to put here when there are: army list, tactics, painting & hobby, fiction etc. forums?

We have: storm of chaos army list, tunneling teams, slings, stars and poison, but these rules and tactics are covered in other places where they are more likely to be seen by others who wish to hire our mercenarys. Never mind I'm certain well get a rare choice in 7th ed?
Currently joint first in PRS points, may as well blow my trumpet whilst I've got one.

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Bodacious
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Reviving my eshin clan sounds like a great project for me to start when I'm done with my regular skaven!

Re-introduce the people to my sneaky side might even prove beneficial around here :ph43r: .

I'll be watching the dojo-developments with interest.
My Blog - My Army Diary - Twitter: @DaanofWar - Steam: DaanofWar
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Mutator
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Retired fat dude

Aha!

Have played some more games with my UCoD Eshin.

Usual 2250 roster: Sensei, Stars, Bands, 4+ ward; Sorcerat, eye, dispel scroll; Sorcerat, warpscroll; Sorcerat, warpstorm scroll; 8 x 7 nightrunners, xhw; 1 x 5 rat swarms; 4 x 7 gutter runners, poisoned xhw; 2 x triads

Game vs ogres: played like absolute tripe, forgot that butchers are immune to poison, lost. Dice couldnt save me. Sensei survived. Forgot UCoD.

Game vs Khorne mortals (HoC): played like moderate tripe, miscalculated nightrunner vs warhound combats, unfortunate delays. Sensei failed T6 terror test after failing to kill giant (aarg!), couldnt rally, and then warpstone amulet killed him :P

Loved it.

Considering different sorceror loadout. Brass Orb tempting. Very tempting. Choice of dropping either of the warp scrolls difficult though.

Determined to not go down the shooting route with the nightrunners though. Accept that I may be handicapping myself in doing so (the ability to *do* something against fear causers knowing I wont be risking a Ld6/7 fear test to charge) is a very good reason in today's playing climate, but I want to have a horde of ninja rats trying to climb down enemy trousers and snip their unmentionables off.

I'll just have to use the Sensei's Ld umbrella better. Suspect rather than skitterleaping behind the lines T1-2, away from the rest of the army, that sending a brass-balled sorcerat behind there might actually be better, whilst the rest of the army funnels the multi-wound targets towards the sensei and the troops sheltering beneath his Ld umbrella. Or, at least, for those games where the Ld is required (ogres, VC, TK, WE, daemons). Can handle other armies where only "some" stuff is fear-causing (HE, DE, HoC, BoC).

Thinking out loud... ;)
Mostly harmless
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Xh!n Tarat
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(Mostly) Overatted.

............. and thinking very well.

(Proving that the more things change, the more they stay the same - eh, Comrat? ;) )

I have come to very similar conclusions while pondering over my ignominious string of poor performances, and arrived at a very similar position concerning the use of the "leadership umbrella" (superb terminology, btw) and funneling enemy units towards our killers rather than exposing said killers through over aggressive assault & pursuit.

I think it's dead set Zen to accept that an enemy running in to or falling on to our blades is still impeccably impaled, the only difference being that it is them making the physical effort rather than us.

And your public pondering is exactly what this dojo should be all about!

Eshin are the most difficult of the great clans to use successfully as the rules (and army lists) stand now. That Comrats, is our strength, and we should utterly revel in it. We are not the soft option, east peasy, point + click Skaven armies. Those of us devoted to our Black Pyjama Brigade are the very cutting edge of The UnderEmpire - true servants of the Horned Rat seeking to conquer tacteekal mountains instead of mere molehills.

And as they squeak: "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".

So what we need to do on these pages is not pander to mass appeal - our beloved Eshin are not for the average Skaven.

No, what we need to do is once more create a continually stimulating and engaging environment where we individually and collectively reach for the stars (throwing or otherwise). We may be an elite few, but if we once more enthusiastically share the stuttering steps we are each taking along The True Path, we - and this beloved dojo - will once more hum to the sounds of superior tactical thinking evolving, developing and becoming ever more lethally effective.

These are exciting times to be Eshin, Comrats - very exciting times indeed!
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Niz'tizi'ihack
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Mad Harbringer of Mutation
Dear Xh!n Tarat... Even though I agree with your teachings on priciple, I can't get my mutant monstrosities to even learn the basics of Ninjitzu and they keep tearing up their black pyjamas. This even after heavy application of the whip...

What am I doing wrong?

Niz'tizi'ihack, Master Moulder.
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Xh!n Tarat
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(Mostly) Overatted.

This, Comrat Niz'tizi'ihack, is precisely the sort of dilemna that we as a dojo should be applying our collective intellects and experiences to resolve.

May I humbly suggest that you initiate another thread hereabouts, and in it let us know both the composition of your ninjrat sept, and the nature of those opponents you are seeking to knife? I see many many fine Eshin devotees returning home now, so I would be highly confident that we may help you along The True Path.
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Retired fat dude

Xh!n Tarat
May 20 2008, 09:49 PM
Eshin are the most difficult of the great clans to use successfully as the rules (and army lists) stand now.  That Comrats, is our strength, and we should utterly revel in it.  We are not the soft option, east peasy, point + click Skaven armies.  Those of us devoted to our Black Pyjama Brigade are the very cutting edge of The UnderEmpire - true servants of the Horned Rat seeking to conquer tacteekal mountains instead of mere molehills.


I ahve to confess that my initial reasons for fielding an UCoD Eshin army were almost the complete opposite - I found it very easy to use (not necessarily successfully use, that is a different matter), because I only had to essentially "think" at very few stages of the game:

(i) prior to deployment, when I envisaged da plan,
(ii) at my 9th deployment, where I placed the rat swarms, taking into account the dispositin of the enemy,
(iii) after deployment, where I placed my scouting units (ie the entirety of the special/rare/character allotments) upon revision of da plan, and
(iv) during the magic phase, where I planned my skitterleaps,and for the sake of variety
(v) when I burned the dispel, warp and warpstorm scrolls.

Everything else essentially operated on autopilot: which units charged or didnt, where units went with respect to either existing combats or 'da plan', whether a unit held or fled the charge, etcetera, all instant judgement calls requiring very little actual mental exercise.

The army was selected with this in mind: unit sizes were such that they all fitted on my skirmish move trays (clear plastic petri dishes - just fit my unit sizes of 7 models), everything moved 6, and even my spellcasting was symmetrical - all 3 sorcerors used 3 dice.

Cant be bothwered playing anything else? Bring the black eshin case out.

It really was a minimal effort army. Note the emphasis on 'was'

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No, what we need to do is once more create a continually stimulating and engaging environment where we individually and collectively reach for the stars (throwing or otherwise).  We may be an elite few, but if we once more enthusiastically share the stuttering steps we are each taking along The True Path, we - and this beloved dojo - will once more hum to the sounds of superior tactical thinking evolving, developing and becoming ever more lethally effective.


I think 7th ed combined with the newer army books has changed the way the game now effects the UCoD Eshin. No more move-twelve-inches-all-of-the-time and a preponderance of (i) fear/terror causers, (ii) high magic offence, (iii) positional-based movement, (iv) ultra-fast armies, and (v) single model units means I have to lift my game to cope with the deficit in the tactical flexibility I used to enjoy. The first problem wasn't new, as I had played a fair number of games under 7th and felt that the reduction of move speed added to the game from the POV of both me and my opponent, but the second? Work required.

The two options open to me (and the rest of us) are:

(i) use our tried and tested eshin rosters better, or

(ii) modify our rosters to suit.

Fortunately they are not either/or options. I'll be trying a slight modification of the roster and an increased effort to use it better (as signalled in my previous post).

Good times ahead (for us!)
Mostly harmless
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