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Bretonnia; How to open the tin can?
Topic Started: 13th March 2008 - 10:38 AM (394 Views)
Aeschere
Grey Seer
Tomorrow I have a 2k battle planned against Bretonnia. I have no idea what he is going to play but since he is a new player just like me I expect lots of knights. Any advice on how to beat him with my current list as posted below?

# Name
1 Warlord; Heavy Armor, Shield

1 Warlock Engineer; Kit - Pistol, Storm Deamon
1 Warlock Engineer; Kit - Pistol, Dispel Scroll
1 Warlock Engineer; Kit - Pistol, Eye of the Horned Rat

25 Clan Rats; Musician, Banner, Ratling
25 Clan Rats; Musician, Banner, Ratling
25 Clan Rats; Musician, Banner
25 Clan Rats; Musician, Banner
22 Clan Rat Slaves; Musician
22 Clan Rat Slaves; Musician
22 Clan Rat Slaves; Musician
6 Nightrunners
6 Nightrunners
5 Nightrunners
2 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
2 Poisoned Wind Globadiers

3 Gutter Runners; Tunneling, ADH, PHW
9 Warplock Jezzails
9 Warplock Jezzails
20 Plague Monks; FC, Banner of Burning Hatred, ADH

I am thinking about some Plague censer bearers, but not sure what to take out and how to use them. Any advice on this?

I guess that baiting him with the slaves while casting WL is the best option, but what if my clan rats are in combat? Would it be best to let them walk on their own (in the small change he doesn't have archers)? Or hide them in my clan rats for as long as possible, hop out when a charge is imminent and cast WL in combat? The jezzails are going to have a blast with his knights so that should be clear, but what are the main targets?

Bretonnia is one of the few armies I do not have an army book of, so no idea what to expect.

TIA
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WageMage
Chieftain
I would drop 1 Engineer and take a BSB.
It is crucial to not losing your center when the knight lances make their initial charge.
Once their charge is over the Bretonnians should be stuck in combat where they will be overwhelmed by CR.
You have Jezzails so don't need Warplightning spamming.
It's not that effective against knights actually (4+ armour & 5+ ward)

Throw all the slaves and globadiers in front of your army to redirect the knights and avoid being combo charged by the lances/Pegasus Knights.

Lose the Burning hatred banner + the extra weapons on the monks.
They will have 2+ armor saves and all your attacks will bounce. Add the Warbanner instead for 6 guaranteed CR.
Take censer bearers with the saved points, they will do the killing.
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CapAmr05
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Censer Bearers are excellent against Knights, but your 2 WL (+1 daemon shot) and jezzails can make up for a lack of bearers.

I'd drop one the Dispell scroll. Bret magic isn't anything to be afraid of except maybe rainlord, but you should have enough dispell dice to counter that.

This list should dominate brets as long as you widdle his units down and don't let him charge expensive units.

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Aeschere
Grey Seer
Hmm, I just got myself the book to get an impression. It looks alright, just one question, how the hell can you tell which unit is what? In the picture section they all look alike!
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Mutator
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Retired fat dude

Aeschere
Mar 14 2008, 06:04 AM
Hmm, I just got myself the book to get an impression. It looks alright, just one question, how the hell can you tell which unit is what? In the picture section they all look alike!

Ask your opponent, all the time.

Otherwise it is as follows:
Knight = knight of the realm.
Knight with no helm = knight errant
Knight with great weapons = questing knights
Fancy knights = grail knights (keep an eye out for these ones, as they are the most deceptively similar to realm knights)

Everything else is pretty self explanatory. Peasants are peasants, and as such should be treated with the same caution you would clanrats or slaves (they have the same function, and you'll be able to tell the skilled bretonnian player by how many peasants they have: more = skilled). Just watch out for the ones carrying the Grail Reliquae, as they are stubborn.

WageMage
 
I would drop 1 Engineer and take a BSB.
It is crucial to not losing your center when the knight lances make their initial charge.
Once their charge is over the Bretonnians should be stuck in combat where they will be overwhelmed by CR.


Even a BSB should help against a bretonnian charge. Unless the brets player has gone MSU knights, they'll be bringing only 1-2 static CR less than you'll have, plus all those attacks to boot.

Better to flee *all* charges which are not going into redirecting troops, and countercharge.

To do this you need to force the issue by getting up in his face early, so that he doesnt have time to go sideways, or line up his own countercharges.

A further trick is to use the nightrunners to redirect charges. He'll have to attempt to make contact with the closest skirmisher (or head towards the centre of the fleeing unit), inevitably wheeling and presenting his flank. And most bretonnians on the flank are not *that* hard.

Also remember that bretonnian Ld isnt that hot.
Mostly harmless
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Zavratatar
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Grey Seer
I use a devious trick: I ask my opponent. Then I put little yellow stickynotes next to them. XD

Otherwise just do what mutator says. Place slave units directly in front of knights, flee on the charge, they'll run exactly 16", you should have no problem placing a unit to hit that in the flank. Any units give you trouble, you should have more than enough ranged gizmos to just blast it off the field...

No need to kill entire units with the shooting, but aiming for the ones with characters in them is usually a good idea, those are the mean ones. :) Once a normal unit is down to five models or less they really don't do that much. But hey, if you've got shooting to spare (i.e all his units are now 5 models or less XD) then just pang away. :)

The Trebuchet can't move, btw, so just place your tunnelmarker under the side of it and you'll get it. ;) (try to stay 6" from the boardedge though..)
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Aeschere
Grey Seer
I never really grasped the idea of redirecting charges. Could someone show me how it is done? I don;t have the BRB with my atm and won't be able to take a look at it before I have the actual battle. Also, my opponents never seem to charge the slaves, any suggestions on how I could force them?
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Zavratatar
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Grey Seer
Well, you're not really forcing them to charge anything. You place your slaves so that they cant go forward anymore, then they'll either have to charge the slaves or slide 4" sideways to try and get past them next turn. Since you have ~20 Jezzails, I think most players will want to get forwards as fast as possible. :)

When units charge and the recieving unit flees (that's your slaves), the fleeing unit moves directly away from the charger, along a line measured from centre to centre of the two units. When the fleeing unit has completed it's move, the charger has to follow along the same line, wheeling if necessary. If he can reach the unit with his full charge move, he does his full move along the line and the fleeing unit is destoyed. If he can't reach the fleeing unit, he still has to move a full regular move along the line.

Globardier teams are really good at redirecting knights (or rather making them go straight forward into the little "gap" you should have made for them in your deployment) as they can shift 5" sideways to keep up with the knights sliding.

I'm working on a flash animation to show this "live" but you'll have to make do with text for now. :)

Best case scenario you get a 300pt knight unit that moved to the middle of the table, charged 20pts of globardiers and then had to turn around because they got stuck behind your line after the charge. That's three full turns of shooting from your jezzails before they even get a fair chance to charge. ;)
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Aeschere
Grey Seer
Well, I had the battle last night and tbh it was all over from turn 2. He prayed so I took the first turn. A round of jezzail fire and warp lightning killed a Pegasus knight and 5 grail knights. He failed some charges and I had another round of shooting killing a lot of knights. From there on it was just wiping up. We called it at the end of his third round.

Massacre for me. He made some mistakes that I could use. Also his lack of units allowed me to get away with some mistakes. It was a good battle and we both learned something again. The rematch is being planned.

Oh I am still interested in that flash movie. I think I got the redirections right, but I would like to see some "live" examples.




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bakfire the experimenter
graduate of the school for dangerous inventions
dont forget the very skaven tactic of putting your bsb in the back (lead from the back) so he cant be killed and you dont loose the static CR.
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