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Need help defeating beastmen
Topic Started: 12th March 2008 - 10:59 PM (110 Views)
atogatog


Hello fellow skaven players. Recently I have started playing warhammer again since I quit at the end of the 5th edition. I decided to start with a skaven force and bought the battalion box, a warpfirethrower, warplightning cannon and some characters. This allows me to field a force of around 1000 points. Now I have the following prolem: I just can’t seem to beat my regular opponent. He is a veteran player who started playing during the 5th edition and had a two year break in the 6th but started playing at the end of the 6th edition. He recently started out a beastmen force and I just can’t compete with the speed and flexibility of his list. He knows most if not al the special rules from every unit and knows the ways to counter it. Could you give me some tips/pointers so I can defeat him. My current list is:

Chieftain, heavy armour, great weapon

Warlock engineer, the usual, stormdaemon

Warlock engineer, the usual.

20 clanrats, shield, light armour, full command, ratling gun

20 clanrats, shield, light armour, full command, warpfire thrower

6 giant rats with packmaster

20 plaguemonks, additional handweapon, full command

1 warplightning cannon

As I said he usually fields a beastmen army, but he never fields the same list twice and always has some new tricks or units to surprise me with. For example: In the first few games he never used the ambush rule, I didn’t even know it existed. When we recently played a game I noticed that his army was a bit smaller then usual, but thought nothing of it. That was until his second turn when 2 small beastherds appeared at my table edge and threatened my units from the rear, needless to same my units where smashed to tiny pieces. I know that he has an extremely large collection of miniatures at his disposal but luckily he currently is using only beastmen which he recently bought so I don’t see him using something else. His list usually looks something like this:

Wargor, great weapon, heave armour, some item that grants magic resistance (I hate this item as it makes it easier for him to stop my warplightning)

Shaman scroll caddy

2 chariots

2 small herds 5 gors/5 ungors, they started ambushing in the last few games, but sometimes he deploys them right from the start

2 large herds, around 18 strong, don’t know the exact numbers of gors/ungors with full command, usually here go the characters.

2 times 5 hounds

3 or 4 screamers

spawn of slaanesh

Like I said, he changes his list every time and I dread the day he assembles his minotaurs or when he fields his dragon ogres.

This is what happened last game: In the first turn he marches up towards me, screening the large herds with hounds or smaller herd, staying just out of range of my ratling gun and I can only fry him with the WFT if I roll high on the artillery dice. He moves his screamers up for a second turn charge on ratling gun, WFT or WLC. I use both of my warplightning to kill the screamers and my stormdaemon fails to do any damage. Shooting was ineffective due to range and the WLC failing to wound a chariot.
In his turn his slaanesh spawn charges the clanrat unit with an engineer. In his second turn his ambush happens, two 5/5 herds appear. One fails it’s ld-check but he has the luck that they appear behind my plaguemonks. The other unit arrives behind the chieftain’s unit. He angles his hounds to direct my monks and unit with chieftain in such a way that if I charge them they flee and I expose my flanks/rear. In combat the spawn beats the engineer to death and the clanrats do nothing in return. This unit was battling the spawn for the remainder of the battle, failing to wound it. In my turn the monks charge the hounds which flee, leaving them in the open with a large herd to the front and a small herd threatening the flank. The unit with the chieftain faced the hounds so that the hounds where blocking the large herd from charging. The engineer left the unit in an attempt to blast the small herd that ambushed from behind. The magic phase was uneventfull with one engineer dead. In my shooting face the WFT killed 4 models from the small herd in the flank of the monks but they passed their panictest.
In his turn the monks get charged by large herd in the front and the small herd in the flank which resulted in a lot of dead monks, the monks broke and where run down by the large herd who pursuit into the flank of the clanrat unit that was battling the spawn. They wasted no time and tore through the unit. At this point I conceded because I only had the chieftain with his unit and a WLC.

Such things generally happen when I battle him, he outmanoeuvres me and gets of combo charges with a large unit in the front and a smaller in the flank/rear.

I know that I should have more troops, but currently I am using almost all my miniatures except some ratogres. I will get 20 plaguemonks and 6 plaguecenser bearers (5th edition models :D) recently so I plan on adding them to my force in some way. I know that I should drop the warplightning cannon but I find it great for popping chariots since it is one of the few reasonable reliable ways of getting rid of them. On the other hand, he has no heavy cavalry of multiwound models (at least not now, but he has minotaurs or chaos knights) and firing a warplightning cannon through skirmishers isn’t very useful.

I have thought about using even more magic/shooting but as I see it I have more then enough firepower at my disposal, it is just a matter of correctly countering all his moves.

Thanks in advance.
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Surgin The Twisted
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Clanrat
Well, if i were you, I'd invest in another rattling guns, they make mincemeat out of no armor units. Use it on those ambushing beast herds, odds are pretty good that you'll kill all the ungors and maybe a gor if you roll twice (average roll being a 7 of course).

but I think you've got a nice idea with the warpfire thrower. Low Leadership armies hate that thing, spray it on his beast herds. Dont try for the long shot though (its not worth it), i find that when they are ~10 inches out, its a nice time to let it rip. Unleash it on the larger beastheards.

Honestly, I think your list is just suffering slightly from a lack of models and small, expendable units. It appears that your friend is fielding just as many models as you are and you just cant let that happen! Increase those clan rat units up to 25 at least and maybe think about dropping the plague monks for more giant rats, Night runners, slaves. I definitely emphasize slaves, they'll definitely hold up a spawn through CR or be great bait for other, nastier units.

And I'm really iffy on the chieftain selection, especially if youre into skaven magic. I know you want some fighting prowess but I just dont think its the skaven way... especially if you trade him in and get MORE clan rats or even a unit of slaves! Think about it... one character = one 20 rat unit plus a lil something to spend elsewhere.

I know you dont have the models for all these modifications, but it might incline you towards getting more variety to help your army. Just remember, its just a game. Have fun! :D


"To Clan Moulder, Slave-Thing, the Whip is mightier than the Sword."

-Surgin The Twisted
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