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| DAMN SKIRMISHERS!; help help, beast things kill kill. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 25th February 2008 - 03:28 PM (508 Views) | |
| Queek Gnawbeard | 25th February 2008 - 03:28 PM Post #1 |
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Hmm Great general supreme Queak Gnawbeard meet much pain pain by beast things.! Many bad bad fail underlings, no good good. Fail fail do all my minions, no good, must kill kill beast things. Running here and there. make Queak itchy scratch paw. *** I have a twice weekly game i play, i always fight against a 2000 point beastman army. I am a former GW worker, played skaven for almost 16 years, in all forms. I was recently undefeated at my store, before i left, and undefeated for almost 5 years...Then i played my buddy, who plays those filthy beast things (beastmen) ANd i have lost the last, oh 15 STRAIGHT!! what the hell. He is a good player...but i just am sucking hard. I NEED HELP FAST...i am sick of loosing. my main problem i know is getting out moved constantly....so please guys, any and all help. I need help. thanks brothers. |
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| ==Me== | 25th February 2008 - 03:39 PM Post #2 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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==My== main opponent is Beasts and they need to be approached very differently from other armies. Big things to remember: -Beast Herds have no armor -Low Ld across the board unless marked -strong in HtH -max +2 rank bonus I like using Warp Lightning and Ratling guns to whittle down big beast herds, no roll to hit and lots of shots will cause serious pain. For their ranked units, use Nighties to march block. One-on-one, clanrats will have more combat res than a beast herd. 4 Gors and a Foe-Render will kill 1-2 clannies charging, and will lose maybe 1. And since clannies outnumber them, that's 5 to 6 normally. The big problem with this is that they have lots of skirmishers and fast-moving unit to flank you. With this in mind, guard flanks with RGs or Nighties with 2hw. It's also hard to flank skirmishing beasts, so use those slaves to set up charges. Warp Lightning murders Bestigors, Ogres, and Minotaurs. Jezzies destroy Dragon Ogres, big and bigger and chariots. Hope this helps. |
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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| Mormeguil | 25th February 2008 - 04:38 PM Post #3 |
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baby nurgle
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Also, if your opponent is the type to field it's beast herd in units with lots of ungor (the small guys) a small unit og night runner with two hand weapon can make quite a dent in them. Sure you will lose combat and probably your night runner but 7 of them can deal a couple of wounds on ungor. Otherwise any shooting should do it. Finally just a beastherd with a hero can't really win against clanrats. They might win by 1 or 2 but you will probably stay there. He need to add another hitter to make it work, either a shaggoth or some chariots. If you manage to take out those or make them run elsewhere you should be able to win this game since he can't really touch you. |
| I have a few bare metal dark elf model for sale, if interested pm me. | |
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| Sammy the Squid | 26th February 2008 - 09:04 AM Post #4 |
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Back to retirement!
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I almost never have trouble against Beastmen, in fact I win the vast majority of games against them... You reckon you could give us a rundown of what units he uses? Without knowing roughly what you are facing and using it is a bit tough to give decent advice... - Sammy |
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"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!" Wins/Losses/Draws Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20 Dark Elves - 44/14/8 Hochland Empire - 33/14/4 Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4 Beastmen - 50/25/2 Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!! | |
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| The Adept | 26th February 2008 - 10:26 AM Post #5 |
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Clanrat
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Ah, fighty skirmishers. Damn pain. You could try: -Rattling runs placed behind your main units. This should protect them from spells, as well as covering your flanks/rear from the beast skirmishers. Area denial, baby! - Your own skirmishers. Night runners can get in the way, die in a convenient place and are cheap as hell. They can keep up with the beast, as well. Gutter runners should be able to maul a beast herd quite well, especially if you can combo charge them into the back! - Warp lightning. Nuf said. - Take a DoW giant (make a rat giant if you don't like to look), and use him and his terror to hold the flank. If they stay away from him, great. If not, he can eat them (remember that beast rank up 4 wide minimum. Againt the narrow base of a giant, they don't get any ranks!). Anchor the other flank with a board edge. - The Long Skaven Line o' Death. Just take enough ranked units to stretch across the entire board. If you don't have any flanks, he can't slip around them! He'll have to take on the front of a unit. Hope at least one of those helps... |
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| Zavratatar | 26th February 2008 - 02:19 PM Post #6 |
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Grey Seer
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I'm playing a 1500 game soon against beasts, His list will look something like this: Wargor General of Khorne (some magic item) Wargor BSB of Khorne (some item or banner) Beast herds, 8 gor 8 ungor, 1 champion, standard, musician (16models) Beast herds, 8 gor 8 ungor, 1 champion, standard, musician (16models) Chariot Chariot 5 warhounds 5 warhounds 5 furies 5 centigors 3 Minotaurs, greatweapons or extra weapons. Khorne mark 3 Dragon Ogres, Greatweapons, light armour. That's 1400 without items. Sometimes he fields a 15 strong unit of khornegors aswell, nasty unit but because of frenzy I believe it to be less of a problem... It's the herd/s with the characters in it that threatens to plough the front of my clannies : / Share your sneaky tactics, Sammy.
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| ==Me== | 26th February 2008 - 03:11 PM Post #7 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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Those herds are small and easy to beat with combat res. If charging, they should only kill 2 clannie and you can kill 1, 3 ranks+outnumber+standard+kill = 6. 2 kills+2 ranks+banner = 5. If you need to even the odds, add a charatter or flank them with 2hw nighties (they shred ungors), Grats, or slaves. Slaves can be used to bait any Khorne units, use Warp Lightning to send the Khornegors packing. I equip ==My== Engineer with the storm daemon to let off even more zappy death if he dispels warp lightning (MoK will tend to do that..) Hounds are weak and panic easy, Centigors only take a few casualties before their unreliable tails turn. Minos and DOgres will be tougher, Jezzies are probably your best bet, or some cheap Night Runners to run the Minos in circles all game. You aren't going to beat Khorne troops in combat, so outnumber, flank, bait, and win through combat res and sneaky tricks. |
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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| Queek Gnawbeard | 26th February 2008 - 03:23 PM Post #8 |
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Hmm okay the lay out is usually like this He plays tzeentch (spelling lol) He has two large beast heards, two units of hounds, two units of minatours, about three or four each i think, and a unit of dragon ogres and usually two chariots. He is magic heavy, and i find his beast lords can be a real pain when they hit. I keep getting charged...grr. but whatever. so that is the general lay out. it varies sometimes, a unit of furies, but that is the lay out. I hate having a grey seer but i worry about magic domination. |
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| Zavratatar | 26th February 2008 - 09:01 PM Post #9 |
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Grey Seer
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I'm winning with one if they charge, but with the characters in there I'm losing by one or more... I guess I could just throw lots of magic on them and hope they panic off the table. I expect to do ok against the rest of the list, it's the herds that have me bothered. My magic always tends to pull towards flyers and fastcav in the early turns to protect my flanks and the cannon.
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| ==Me== | 27th February 2008 - 02:51 AM Post #10 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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Ratling Guns destroy beast herds, auto-hitting and against armorless targets it is some kind of god-weapon. Failing that, flank them with either rank-negaters like slaves and GRats or killers like nighties, GRs, etc. |
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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| Sammy the Squid | 27th February 2008 - 03:20 AM Post #11 |
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Back to retirement!
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So lots of ogre sized units eh? I find the beast herds are the easiest part to deal with. They almost never win combat on their own, and even with characters they can struggle against fully ranked units of Clanrats... As easy as it is to just blast them with Rattling guns and spells, I'd actually target these against the Minotaurs and Dragon Ogres, as both are nasty in combat and units of 3-4 can really mess up any of our units in a single round of combat. Once 1-2 of each unit are killed from long range, they will be so much easier to deal with in combat! But remember, never Warp-lightning the Dragon Ogres!! Warpfire Throwers are brilliant against Beastmen. Against Herds, the auto-panic on low LD means that they will end up fleeing very frequently and the high strength will ensure that even Gors and Bestigors die with ease. Against the larger creatures, the D3 wounds means that it can kill several in 1 shot. Well worth investing the extra points and replacing your Rattlings with WFT's in my opinion... As for magic heavy, I'd go with 2 defensively equiped engineers (maybe only 1, depending on just how much magic he has), a Warlord and a BSB. I'm personally a fan of the Grey Seer, but if you're not then there's no reason why you should take him... Put Engineers in his place... How much magic exactly is used? I can just imagine a Beastlord of Tzeentch, some Bray Shamans and a BSB w. Banner of Wrath... That could be an absolute nightmare to face, but it would be an awful lot of points invested there... The Chariots will be a pain to deal with. They have an incredible amount of high strength attacks on the charge, so its best to avoit letting them do so. Bait them with slaves or naked Night Runners, then flank them with Clanrats (or even slaves would do the trick). TRY to force them to flee through their own units to cause additional damage through impact hits! This is difficult, but well worth trying from time to time! Once again shooting will destroy them easily, with low toughness and armour save, but if you are also dealing with 2 units of Minotaurs and Dragon Ogres then there are more fitting targets for your guns... Khornegors are an absolute nightmare to face, and practically nothing we have can deal with them in combat. I say try your best to avoid them and bait them away. If you really must deal with them, shoot them up good first, but essentially I try to avoid them while destroying the rest of the army... @ Zavratatar: Against that army, I'd target magic and firepower against the chariots and big creatures and let the Herds advance relatively unscathed. With characters in they are relatively nasty, but if you have a BSB nearby then units of 30 Clanrats should be able to hold them up for a turn or two, allowing you to get a flank charge in place. They will crumble with that, and shouldn't be much of a threat, just dont let them get combined charges with Beastherds and chariots off, they will kill anything! Also, units of 5 Centigors may not appear scary at first sight, but don't ignore them. They can cut through practically anything with little effort. Once 1 or 2 are down though they should be easy enough to beat in combat... Any other questions/tactics you need? Hope this helps - Sammy |
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"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!" Wins/Losses/Draws Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20 Dark Elves - 44/14/8 Hochland Empire - 33/14/4 Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4 Beastmen - 50/25/2 Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!! | |
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| Zavratatar | 27th February 2008 - 06:55 AM Post #12 |
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Grey Seer
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I might just be putting the WFT back in my list... I count on my cannon railing through the screen to take the chariots, the jezzails get to shoot down the centies, I've got one clanrat/slave combo for each of the minotaurs and ogres, so I guess the magic will go for the herd with characters in it and the furies/hounds. I'll try to bounce the other herd of my last clanrat unit, baiting it with my slaves. He uses the herds to screen just about everything, meaning magic can't target the big things right off the bat anyway. I don't really know what to do with my tunnelteams in this game, any ideas? I'm considering using my general as a battering ram against a herd, forcing it to rank up against him and then flank-charging with a clanrat unit. Not so sure on how good a plan that is, but it's a trick up my sleeve anyway. Those are always good to have.
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| Queek Gnawbeard | 27th February 2008 - 11:03 PM Post #13 |
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BITE ME SIDE WAYS!!!! What a freakin massacre, this is just embarrassing honestly i was massacred last night, just got the floor mopped. I fielded 2 x25 clan rats ratling and warp, 3 rat ogres, 2 warlocks three dispel scrols, 25 plague, 6 night runners, 10 jezzails, warp lightning and 6 censers, oh and i think like 9 glob, a warlord and an assassin. he had 14 magic dice, BITE ME, 3 or 4 chariots, 2 x 3 minataurs, 3 dragon ogres, 3 beast herds, 2 x5 pack of hounds and a unit of 6-8 centigors. AND I DID WARP THE DRAGON OGRES>..i dont know wht i was smoking. But seriously i was wiped out just slaughtered. it was sad. REALLY SAD i was out hoarded.sigh help please i am sick of this...just fed up to the point i want to quit. i cant believe i was wiped out again. |
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| Throat Ripper | 27th February 2008 - 11:14 PM Post #14 |
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Purveyor of WarpTea
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Jezzail the ogres. Use ratling guns to mow through the beast herds. A WLC can do some damage to the Minotaurs. And most importantly of all, pray to the dice gods. Oh and try to enjoy the game as much as possible, after all its just a game. You might lose horribly, its skaven, you probably really will lose horribly. Laugh at the way your plans blow up in your face when a well placed misfire kerfuffles them. Then make up some new ones. Dont quit because a couple of losses. |
![]() Egregious Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography | |
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| ==Me== | 28th February 2008 - 12:39 AM Post #15 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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Throat Ripper's got the right idea, learn from your losses and enjoy the game. We're playing Skaven, the funnest army this side of da Orkses (and they aren't even Fantasy :P). Against Tzeentch BoC, you may need more magic defense. Sniping mages isn't really an option since they are quite fearsome combatants on their own. Try a Grey Seer instead of your Warlord, it will certainly help stop the magical onslaught and bring some of its own nastiness to bear. Minos, DOgres, etc go down hard to Jezzies, so pick the priority targets and fire away. And as nasty as beasts can be in HtH, you should have number and flanking advantages (take at least 3 blocks of clannies and slaves). Keep at it, you'll get them eventually
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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