| tactics against chaos; if my dice rolls come off | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 18th January 2008 - 08:25 AM (186 Views) | |
| bakfire the experimenter | 18th January 2008 - 08:25 AM Post #1 |
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graduate of the school for dangerous inventions
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i have played a couple of games against chaos players and have struggled both times. i dont have any jezzails as they dont fit into my clan's histroy. are there any specail tactics to consider against chaos?? my most recent game was yesterday where i was a little unlucky with my dice rolls (ok they were very poor - 5 miscasts in the game, 3 of them in 1 magic phase). i also felt really cheated when he deployed a unit said they were his chosen so i deployed according to my plan and then when he had to take an armour save for the unit realised that they didnt have shields so they weren't his chosen. It changed the whole ballance of the game as he then declared that this other unit over the other end of the table was his chosen - i nothing positioned to incereot / flank them and they went on a rampage though my flanks. he also used a juggernaught with a WS 10, 10 attacks toughness 5 character on top.. i did one would to him in the entire game.... how far can that thing charge 17" plus inches... so unfair!! have i been utterly done here?? anyway back to the point at hand i have 2 units of clan rats, 2 units of slaves,2 units of plague monks with some censer bearers, 4 rat ogres, a couple of pwg, a wlc and a couple of WE's + a grey seer(on a bell).. how do i deal with the immune to psychology and the high armour?? |
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Daniel cannot possibly exist in a dimensional state. Recent studies show that people who have attempted to comprehend Daniel have either disappeared, died spontaneously, or driven themselves into a pertinent state of insanity and/or catatonia. <img src="http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/23041.gif" alt="Broken Adoptable Image" /><br><a href="http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/levelup/23041-dark-whisper.htm" title="Level up this Daemon!">Level up Adoptable!</a> | |
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| WageMage | 18th January 2008 - 10:28 AM Post #2 |
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Chieftain
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For the mistaken identity part I would have just asked him to switch both units I guess. (unless they were different sizes or already with casualties of course). In any case he is resonsible for telling you what unit is what at the beginning, so no switching during the game. Never played against a Juggernaut so no help here. Some general tips vs Chaos:
1 more important thing: - Don't panic. They may have lots of high STR attacks but even Chaos Knights (except Chosen, they are evil ) have a problem breaking our full ranks when 1 or 2 knights are killed before combat is engaged.Good luck, WM |
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| Zavratatar | 18th January 2008 - 10:42 AM Post #3 |
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Grey Seer
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Sounds like he's not playing very fair... The Lord (I'm assuming) on the juggernaut can only charge 14" as the juggernaut moves 7. If he used something called "The Dark Heart" to increase this he's cheating, that's a beastman only item ;). Him having 10 Attacks on his own is actually really tricky to accomplish, 10 with the mount is a bit easier. Regardless, this guy is khorne, i.e frenzied. If you don't want to fight him you don't have to. Specifics on killing him can be given if you know more about the items he took, but a general tip is hitting him with the WLC when shooting his unit, if he's alone he deserves to be shot by it. The WLC will ignore the damonic save of the Juggernaut and without it that frenzy-boy becomes a lot easier to handle. (Knowing whether or not he has a decent ward save is usually helpful, but this is a 300-400 pt character we're talking here. Killing him is a BIG step towards winning. :))Apart from this, you've got two things (ok 2.5) to do against the chosen horsemen of doom +5: 1: Lead them in a chase-the-30pt-unit game for 6 turns. Not fighting them and killing the rest of his army means you win. (Might also teach him not to concentrate so many points on one unit..) That only works if there IS anything else on the board to kill, of course.. 2: Like the above, but only once or twice. Flank-charging with large clanrat unit containing BSB and warbanner to break it, gutter/night runners behind them to destroy them when they flee. Big nasty chaos heroes can turn this fight the wrong way, so it is important to win by enough to break them in the first round. (If you don't, that chaos hero who was in the middle of the front rank will be moving to the corner in his Move phase...) 3: Angled shots. Use small units to turn the large nasty unit on its side, allowing your WLC to hit atleast five of them in one shot. Keep doing this until the unit is halved, then you'll need to finish with #2 above. That being the general part, some specifics to what you have: PWG's: Use in #3 above, after angling his unit once have these guys run next to it and "get their rocks on". This might allow you to finish of an entire unit with just shooting, just be careful where you place them so you won't pick them off with the WLC. ![]() Plague monks: Versus chaos, not so very useful considering their usually high T and Save... Field small token units to send after his warhounds and such small things, main reason is to get the Cencer bearers. Cencer Bearers: While not strong enough against chaos to just frontal anything, they're very nice to have on a combo-charge with the clanrats in #2 above. Anything that can bait them away in this game is small enough for them to kill on their own and still expensive enough to be worth it. (Love Chaos. ;)) Rat Ogres: Same as with the Cencers, but much harder to fit any decent amount of these into combat along with your clanrats. Very useful in units of 1 Ogre however, M6 redirector with fear, guaranteed to do what you want it to. (And those fear tests to charge him can go bad even with LD10) The Bell: Two of the more likely results when using three dice cause panic tests on all cavalry models. Granted, he's got LD9, but some of those tests are going to fail, especially when all rolled in sequence. It also offers your seer a good vantage point to keep shooting at the diverted cavalry units that undoubtedly end up somewhere behind your lines. Final note: You need three small units to keep a chosen horsemen-unit busy all game, this should cost you about 100pts. Killing half his unit should earn you much more pts than this; when you've managed that it's usually easier to go for the other one. ![]() Hope that helps! Mutate: Added the Dark Heart info, noticed WM got a post in while I was typing mine. His points are all good.
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| Sebrent | 18th January 2008 - 12:57 PM Post #4 |
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If you know you're fighting Khorne, feel free to take a weapon team or two as well. Khorne has no magic nor shooting so your weapon teams can practically run laps around the battlefield with no worries... just avoid enemy charging lanes ... unless you want to redirect and get a stand&shoot reaction out of it as well Also, if you have a forest in your deployment zone, park your WLC in there. It will protect it from cavalry and flyers and the WLC can shoot through forests with no penalty. The only drawback is that moving it out/through the woods will likely kill it, so it will be stuck in there if you do this. Magic against Khorne is generally not a good idea as they often come with a large number of power dice. If you like magic and face khorne, it's like facing dwarves ... go big magic or no magic. What the others said about redirecting charges, setting up charges, etc. are the MOST important. Learn these skills, love these skills, they are how you beat practically everyone as a Skaven general. As far as his general having 10 attacks ... Lord starts with 5, Khorne +1, and then Berserker Sword gives +1 for half the unit strength (rounding up) of all enemies in base combat... so on a Juggernaught, that would be 3-5 clanrats ... so he'd get +2 or +3 giving him a total of 9 or 10 attacks plus the Juggernaught's two attacks... this is why Khorne isn't allowed mages or shooting ... they can dominate close combat so well that it had to be balanced somehow. |
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----Skaven Mathhammer ---- ![]()
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| bakfire the experimenter | 18th January 2008 - 02:07 PM Post #5 |
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graduate of the school for dangerous inventions
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thanks for the advice - im stuck a little with what i have as its a set list im play testing for a tournie. my luck was really against me as my wlc blew up first round, by bell didnt give me any of the few results that would be helpful, and i miscast warp lightning 5 times in the game Sebrent - ref berserker sword - so against a unit of 5 pcb's he shouldnt be getting 10 attacks? i just thinking over all you have said and trying to picture the tactics in terms of on the table moves... will have to try them out. thanks again |
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Daniel cannot possibly exist in a dimensional state. Recent studies show that people who have attempted to comprehend Daniel have either disappeared, died spontaneously, or driven themselves into a pertinent state of insanity and/or catatonia. <img src="http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/23041.gif" alt="Broken Adoptable Image" /><br><a href="http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/levelup/23041-dark-whisper.htm" title="Level up this Daemon!">Level up Adoptable!</a> | |
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| Rubberchrist | 18th January 2008 - 04:28 PM Post #6 |
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Shennanigans are out of the question!
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One final addition to the above: Many of the REALLY sweet chaos wargear have drawbacks. For instance, their best armor kills the guy and turns him into chaos spawn (may or may not be a good thing) if he flees. It would be helpful, if you can get your hands on a book, to see what these are specifically and at least know how to exploit them. -R |
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"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise... He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Kadrium 7th Edition Fellblade Kills: 1 Steam Tank, 1 Warrior Priest, 4 Greatswords, 3 Treekin, 1 Chaos Sorcerer, 5 Chaos Warriors, 13th Spell Kills: 8 Chaos Chosen. | |
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| Zavratatar | 18th January 2008 - 07:30 PM Post #7 |
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Grey Seer
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The berserker sword gives you +attacks for the unit strength of enemies in base to base, so it doesn't matter if its 5 cencer bearers or 30 clanrats, of those 30 clanrats only five will be in base to base. ![]() Seb's points are all very good, I usually don't use weapon teams so I didn't think of that, but they really can run around and party all day against Khorne. ![]() Remember also that the extra dispel dice come from units and characters with the Khorne mark. You kill something like that, there's less dispel dice against you. (Lots of Khorne players "forget" about this...) This will help you by letting your mages step in and "clean up" in the later turns of the game if everything is going well, turning a slight victory into a convincing one. ![]() It's really helpful, regarding the redirecting moves and such, to practice doing this by yourself on an empty table. It'll give you a mental image of how much space that crasy-horse unit really needs to run, where your flanking units should be positioned, and so on. Practice with empty movement trays, using 1 clanrat unit, 1 slave unit and one cavalry unit. The goal is to flankcharge the cav with the clanrats.
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. Either he charges them and places himself in a bad position or else you just made them waste turns manoeuvring away.
) have a problem breaking our full ranks when 1 or 2 knights are killed before combat is engaged.
Specifics on killing him can be given if you know more about the items he took, but a general tip is hitting him with the WLC when shooting his unit, if he's alone he deserves to be shot by it. The WLC will ignore the damonic save of the Juggernaut and without it that frenzy-boy becomes a lot easier to handle.


