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Discussion: Revision for dual-wield and armour
Topic Started: 5th January 2008 - 11:58 AM (369 Views)
Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

URL: http://forum.specialist-games.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=7

During the past two years (well, a bit more, but for ease of putting up a time-frame), the Mordheim Rules Committee has been looking into the revision of dual-wielding of weapons and armour. The reason for this is that the first option is always taken over the second one, which is fairly underpowered in Mordheim. For those who have no clue what they might end up with, a small recap of possible changes:

Dual wield will become -1 to hit with both weapons (though a close combat weapon and pistol might become an exception to this), although a (combat) skill will be added that negates this -1 to hit.

Armour will have several options, such as a bonus on the armour save in combat for a handweapon/ shield combination, no movement penalties for combining armour and shields, or a lower chance on dead warband members with the heavier suits of armour, such as ithilmar and gromril.

So, to start a new discussion: What are the opinions on this matter?

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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Morkskittar
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The Tunnel's Resident Rodent Ecologist

Will it be to all dual-wielding weapons, including Fighting Claws, which are meant to be wielded dually?

As long as there's a skill to negate it that you can eventually grab, it makes little difference to me...

The armour bit definitely needs redoing, though. Even though in street skirmishes, heavy armour isn't something to be wanted, light armour is useless and far too expensive. Maybe if in Mordheim they raised the strangth at which armour saves suffer penalties to 5, then light armour would be half-decent to take (if you lower the price...)

Pillz
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

There's a big "Discuss the options" topic stickied in that forum too and if I remember correctly, the issue of fighting claws was adressed there as well... I'm not too sure anymore what the exact outcome of that issue was, but I believe they were aiming for keeping those (race-specific) weapons as they were, though they might have a price-raise to add in the cost of negating those new dual-wield rules.

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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scrivener
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*toot*

I like the dual-wield change because imho it is a more accurate reflection of fighting with 2 weapons: you can't just pick up two swords and fight at double the efficiency, you need to be ambidextrous and have good coordination, or else you might just cut your other arm off.

Armour is a bit tricky, because the armour save is in general too low and the modifier levels of strength too common. A shield by itself definitely gives more than a 1-in-6 chance of deflecting a blow, and the negation rule doesn't make sense in a practical way: having a bit of extra strength isn't going to help you cut through the shield like it doesn't exist. I think shields should be allowed to parry, like bucklers. Shields provide more active protection than just armour, as it catches and deflects a distance from your vitals while armour just tries to absorb a hit to your body, and it also offers more static protection because it provides a wall in front of you: so shields should get parry and AS. I think the hv armr+shield penalty should remain, though, because it makes sense.
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Niz'tizi'ihack
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Mad Harbringer of Mutation
I've always been really pro these changes. It was always a no brainer to tool up with a cheap extra weapon.

From a fighting stance.. fighting with 2 weapons isn't that hard... but to be honest unless you are really good the second sword is really an off hand parrying tool. It definitely does not increase your ability to hit the enemy more times..... Shields on the other hand are immense in real life. One of my all time hates to come up against someone who knows what they are doing with a shield. They can make it almost impossible to hit them, and this is only the defensive qualities of a shield, it can also block the enemies sight of your weapon making it hard for them to defend against your blows and you can use it offensively to shield punch. However in Fantasy it really works like a big of leather over your torso, which is a shame.
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

*ponders*...

Are you doing midevil knight classes, or something like that? :huh:

On the one hand, you're indeed right that two weapons (blades?) usually end up with one for offensive strikes, while the other is to parry/ block blows from your opponent. However, that's already taken into account with the parry rule for swords, so the dual-wield would be aimed at the second attack it generates... Striking your opponent simultaneously (sp?) with two swords while keeping your defence closed requires a LOT of training.

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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Skaven track record [W/D/L] @ 17th of August, 2014: BB 34/19/55; MH 9/2/6; WHF 17/8/30
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