| damned elitists | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 8th December 2007 - 12:18 PM (480 Views) | |
| deathmaster arcanis | 8th December 2007 - 12:18 PM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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hi, do you have a problem with your so-called awsome in combat plague monks? well i do, my 200 (approx) point plague monk unit just cant seem to hit my opponent hard enough to make up for the massive damage it seems to sustain and the huge amount of attacks suffer severe inaccuracy even with the BoBH my opponents WS is simply too good, even assuming they hit the low strength of the monks and the armor saves and toughness of those stupid saurus (the main reason I get annoyed with elitists) just stops all wounds in their tracks, and finally the opposing elites inflict severe damage to my monks despite toughness due to the monks lack of amour and combat res just cant cut it i don't like to disagree with the master tacticians out there but does anyone now how to get these monks to earn back their points?
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| Morkskittar | 8th December 2007 - 03:15 PM Post #2 |
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The Tunnel's Resident Rodent Ecologist
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Monks aren't meant to take on everything. P Skaven really have nothing that can do that... but having a Priest with a Flail or Censer in the front really helps. I also always take PCB's with my monks, and try and set up charges that allow both units to get into combat (I play against Lizzies a lot, so I know it works). Usually this is done by putting PCB's on the side of the Monks, then moving them enough that they can get a flank. Then you get the powerful attacks, gas, and hatred of the PCB's (and more from the priest) combined with the ranks and numbers of the Plague Monks and a flank bonus... that usually send 'em running...In short, no Skaven unit can take out another unit all by itself, unless its Night Runners vs. Skinks. ![]() Pillz |
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The Eldritch Wastes: A Post-Lovecraftian Online Serial Novel (Author Website) Pub Fight Deaths: 334. Pillz and Pyllz are © by Morkskittar. ![]() Complete Works of Morkskittar / You Have Just Lost the Game 'zodi | |
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| deathmaster arcanis | 8th December 2007 - 03:39 PM Post #3 |
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Clanrat
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good point one thing though, in my experience saurus are near impossible to break, how do you manage it? |
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| Morkskittar | 8th December 2007 - 05:04 PM Post #4 |
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The Tunnel's Resident Rodent Ecologist
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Flanks... if the unit isn't Skirmishing, they get no ranks, you'll still win. You strike first. If you have a charatter (Warlord with Desolate Blade... :D), you'll win by enough that the Cold-Blooded rule won't save them... and the nice thing is that if you use PCB's, no armour vs. Gas and little armour save against the censers... then monks will probably kill at least one... ![]() Yes, it is hard, but with the right combination of Flankers and some support (shooting into combat is good. :D), it can be done... Pillz |
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The Eldritch Wastes: A Post-Lovecraftian Online Serial Novel (Author Website) Pub Fight Deaths: 334. Pillz and Pyllz are © by Morkskittar. ![]() Complete Works of Morkskittar / You Have Just Lost the Game 'zodi | |
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| Vermitt Stain | 8th December 2007 - 05:23 PM Post #5 |
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
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yep i agree you need some census bearers how can deal the damage and like the other guy i normallly take a plauge priest with a fail or census then youshould find them no problem also if you want to break them you could use a battle standard bearer with the scred banner of the horned rat n teyou are mostly to outnumber them and they will need a double one witch they are'nt likely to get even with cold blooded. |
149707 people died on my birthday ...... it wasnt me![]()
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| Mormeguil | 8th December 2007 - 06:47 PM Post #6 |
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baby nurgle
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They also work wonders in stand alone against undead and a lot of umbreakable units. |
| I have a few bare metal dark elf model for sale, if interested pm me. | |
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| Skavenblight | 9th December 2007 - 05:16 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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Personally, very rarely put them in combat with other "elite" troops. Instead, I generally put them into combat with basic troops, I mean think about it, they're 8 points a model at most, there are very few armies out there who's most basic blck unit costs that little. Plus, because elite units in othe lists are generally much more capable of killing than their regulars, I usually put myclanrats against them, they can only kill so many and static combat res + any flanks that I should get on them manage to break them anyways. However, if its Plague Monks vs. a basic unit like skeletons, swordsmen, orcs, goblins, and others; then they have a decent chance of breaking them by themselves. |
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| Sammy the Squid | 9th December 2007 - 05:59 AM Post #8 |
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Back to retirement!
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I find that a Monk unit of around 25-30 with a Priest with Flail and Banner of Burning Hatred works very well against most units. Make the unit 7-8 wide to maximise attacks, and preferably have some Censors hitting the flank should be able to break almost anything. Having said this, it must be said that this unit will attract alot of firepower, and will often arrive at the enemy lines with quite a few less models than anticipated. When this happens, even the huge numbers of attacks will struggle to win combats. In these situations, just be thankful that the firepower absorbed by the Monks has made the rest of your army survive relatively intact... As for defeating Saurus and the likes, if you cant flank them, I find the best tactic is Doomwheels (providing you have opponents permission). Impact hits mean there is few models to strike back, and if you have a ranked unit in there the static combat res will help win the fight! Hope this helps! - Sammy |
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"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!" Wins/Losses/Draws Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20 Dark Elves - 44/14/8 Hochland Empire - 33/14/4 Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4 Beastmen - 50/25/2 Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!! | |
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| deathmaster arcanis | 9th December 2007 - 11:35 AM Post #9 |
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Clanrat
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hhmmm interesting great advice guys but one query
surely its pushing it to feild a doomwheel against lizzies, what with their S7 krox and the doomwheels inabilty to save it with a ward? |
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| Zavratatar | 9th December 2007 - 11:45 AM Post #10 |
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Grey Seer
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I don't field monks, for precicely the same reasons you're having trouble with yours. 18 S3 attacks is still just S3 attacks.. anything with half an armour save is going to laugh you in the face. Yes, they're quite good at killing zombies. Name something that isn't.... Over the course of my armytesting I've more often than not managed to get them either led off due to frenzy or had a large, nasty block of something just march straight up to them and take their charge head on with almost no losses... In my eyes they've become free points for the opponent : / I threw them out, bought more clanrats and replaced the Cencers with a nice, big, chariot-killing WarpCannon. (available in a store near you!) They're pretty nice on paper, but frenzy is the worlds largest drawback. (Except for being a goblin. Most of the time, that's worse.) |
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| deathmaster arcanis | 9th December 2007 - 04:08 PM Post #11 |
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Clanrat
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tempting, but i have bought a battalion and am therefore stuck with 20 monks, love 'em or hate 'em |
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| Madthing | 10th December 2007 - 12:40 AM Post #12 |
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Chieftain
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I believe there's an old Chinese tale about a couple of merchants. They each had three horses: one slow, one average and one fast. So, how do you ensure you win? If you're not interested in exciting races, you pit your average horse against their slow horse, your fast horse against their average horse and your slow horse against their fast horse. That way you're guaranteed to win two out of three races. In the Skaven context, you could say that your slow horses are slaves, your average horses are clanrats, and your fast horses are, in this case, your plague monks. Basically, you can either throw your troops into a dicey situation where they may or may not win, or put them in a situation where you are almost definitely going to win or lose. This is especially important for Skaven where your troops aren't terribly good at killing, which is why a great many tactics involve using slaves to deal with enemy elite troops. The problem with this line of thought is that it assumes that you've got the initaitive; i.e. you can choose who to send your troops up against, and with plague monks especially this doesn't work well. It's also complicated by the fact that there are multiple dimensions of effectiveness; plague monks are typically better at killing, but probably aren't as survivable as a clanrat due to lack of armour and numbers. But I still think that this philosophy is quite useful. |
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| Niz'tizi'ihack | 10th December 2007 - 12:52 AM Post #13 |
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Mad Harbringer of Mutation
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Well said Madthing.. This is how to play with skaven... Your good troops don't compare to the enemies... theirs will always be better, so don't go one on one... pick out their average troops and frag 'em.. the fact we can place down so many cheap units helps as once armies are set up it's very hard to change what's facing what. Take 2 units of 5 Night runners, 2 units of 2 globadiers and 2 units of slaves. By the time the opponents placed 6 units you will know more or less where the rest of his army will go. By this point you will have placed a total of 120 pts... then by the time you have put out your clanrats to deal with the cheap units he will have started by placing, you will know exactly where to place your PMs for best effect... use your firepower and slaves to mess up his elites. |
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| harleysa | 11th December 2007 - 02:18 AM Post #14 |
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I actually had this same problem for a long time, the answer for me was to use them against mostly rank and file troops, which they could often destroy quickly, or throw them against units with psychology effects, like the giant or anything undead. Don't send them agaist eliet units alone if you can help it. I also found that they can be very usefull at assaulting missile units since with their high toughness they are a bit harder to wound and with frenzy they won't panic and run. I find that frenzy can be annoying if your opponent can bait you but is a massive asset if you can make it work for you. I also always take plauge cencer bearers who are all around usefull |
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I also always take PCB's with my monks, and try and set up charges that allow both units to get into combat (I play against Lizzies a lot, so I know it works). Usually this is done by putting PCB's on the side of the Monks, then moving them enough that they can get a flank. Then you get the powerful attacks, gas, and hatred of the PCB's (and more from the priest) combined with the ranks and numbers of the Plague Monks and a flank bonus... that usually send 'em running...



