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How to Kill Elf-Things?; Are Horde Armies Doomed Against HE?
Topic Started: 28th November 2007 - 05:05 PM (496 Views)
Muk-Muk
Stormvermin
I field a Moulder based horde army usually with Thanquol Grey Seer for the free Rat Ogre bodyguard. This means I have lots of cheap expendable troops geared for combat and some high quality combat (Rat Ogres and Master Moulders). Because HE strike first Rat Ogres and Giant Rat Packs seem very vulnerable not to mention it seems to even make Skaven Slaves questionable. I know its 1 race in the whole Warhammer world but in a tournment I really don't want to face an HE army and not have any ideas on how to deal with them.
"Let one fall so that ten more might take its place"
"But what if those ten should fall my lord?"
"Then let them be replaced by one hundred more"
"But my lord will not some be trampled in such a gathering?"
"Only those who get in the way"
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Zavratatar
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Grey Seer
Mwell... The new Hellves are a bit of a pain, especially if they come in large enough units. Your best bet is probably flanking them, with a moulder force it's not like you can shoot them to death. Then again, you'll probably outnumber them 4:1 or so.. Just throw everything you have in the side of any pointy-eared-git you can find, and hope something sticks. ;)

Have you any ideas on your own on how to deal with the dragon?
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Sebrent
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Dragons are not bad unless you let them get your flank/rear. You can handle them if you get your rank bonus thanks to that plus standard, outnumbering, and a musician. You just have to hope the dragon breaks before he wears down your rank bonus.

Flanks are the answer against spearmen to minimize the number of attacks they get back at you.

Flanks are always helpful with increasing your static combat res.

Flee charges from cavalry and then countercharge to take away the +2S they would get otherwise.

You are not going to outcombat the HE... or most any other army. You need to bring as much static combat res as you can by having at least one unit with full rank bonus, a standard, outnumbering, and a musician. Flanks and rear charges help add that extra little "umph." The plan is minimize their chance of inflicting casualties while maximizing your static combat res.

When using giant rats/slaves in combat, use them on units that don't have multiple attacks, as these units will cleave through your giant rats like a hot knife through butter (see: Swordmasters, Spearmen, Lothern Seaguard, Dragon Princes)

Shooting/Magic works well against HEs... they aren't very tough and don't have cheap slave screens.

Be very careful about HE magic. Most people don't realize it, but with the banner that provides +d3 power dice, the item that gives +1 power dice, and an Arch Mage/Dragon Mage, High Elves can throw out an incredible number of power dice from one caster.
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Morkskittar
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The Tunnel's Resident Rodent Ecologist

Out of 3 games vs. the new High Elves, I have won 2, and lost 1. The one I lost was due to me underestimating White (actually Black :P) Lions and Fast Cavalry, and one of the victories was due to my opponent not being able to kill my Clanrats (I failed NO armour saves.... :o at all).

The other game, though, was really close. According to the VP table, I massacred him, but due to how close our troop amounts were, it was much closer (going just by what was killed, it was a minor victory).

I found that being too scared of the Speed of Asuryan hurt more than the actual rule did. :P His spearmen still had difficulty hurting my Clannies, and my one WLC and Ratling Gun wreaked havoc on him. First, make sure you have something to take care of archers and mages. My mages eliminated his. Done with range. :P Then, just force him out of a defensive position. Deal with the fast Cav with ROgres or RGuns. Use shooty bits to force him to be aggressive, then bait and flank. If he doesn't charge, use shooty bits. :P I did this with only two shooty bits. :P Flank charges will still do a lot.... you're not going to kill anything anyway, so it really doesn't matter if the elves strike first!

So, essentially, my tactics against them really didn't change.... at all. :P Oh, and by the way, if you use an assassin, and reveal him, he usually strikes first. ;)

Pillz
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Muk-Muk
Stormvermin
Morkskittar you might be right about Speed of the Asuryan now that I think about it HE usually striked first against Skaven except on the charge so I guess the rule hasn't changed much of anything. Just need to make sure I can bring more units to bear get proper matchups and grind those elf-things into rat-chow :D

As far as Dragons go my army usually has problems against flyers in general. Protect your flanks with cheap stuff because thats where your likely to recieve a charge. I prefer Giant Rats which serve a second role as a missle screen for Rat Ogres. Going after the monster is the most important thing though because the rider himself is easily broken with static combat resolution. I tend to find that when people field Dragons against Skaven horde armies they like to be ultra aggressive and you end up with lots more opprontities to kill them than monster killer armies (Brettonians and Shooty armies). There might be a few suprises you could throw into your army but your characters need to stay defensively gear for the most part.
"Let one fall so that ten more might take its place"
"But what if those ten should fall my lord?"
"Then let them be replaced by one hundred more"
"But my lord will not some be trampled in such a gathering?"
"Only those who get in the way"
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Sebrent
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The biggest problem we have against large, terror-causing, flyers is that most of our best stuff for dealing with them has trouble with terror. Jezzails? No rank bonus, so if the flyer gets them in range of terror, they'll likely head for the hills (though it's dead if they don't run, lol) ... same for weapon teams, warplightning cannons, and PWGs. I only mention these as they have the easiest time dealing with such a maneuverable enemy since they can turn rather freely.
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
thanquol aye what i would do is just warplightnig him or plauge him to death as they are low toughness and he can use 13 warpstone tokens and if he gets a 1 he can re-roll it. also if you trying to take care of the dragon you could just get some rat swarms and use them to hold it up also if they are poisened you may be able to take a couple of wounds of him. and to be honest you need not worry about his normal troops as the rat ogre could easily take care of them and the gaint rats give you the numbers and ranks.
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FatherSquee
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Holder of Clan Pestilens "Most Sexiest" Award

I never really understand why people are afraid of fliers; we have one of the best anti-flying armys going, what with two magic items to take them down and Skitterleap to avoid them plus tunneling teams and other quick troops to do the rest we should be able to handle it, at least long enough so that we get in an advantagous position against their army and they have to go more defensive. The best thing with Horde armies is that it doesn't matter if one unit runs off the table, we've got four more to fill the gap.

As for the First Strike they always got it anyways, if your really afraid of it than grab some spears and have some units go defensive while you position yourself on their flanks and pepper them with magic/shooting.
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