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gutter runers tatic; although you do need a grey seer
Topic Started: 26th November 2007 - 07:19 PM (502 Views)
Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
i recently came across a cool tatic for gutter runners(i use 7-8) basicaly you get a basic tunnerlers unit with poisend hand. then when they pop up (if they pop up) you charge them into the rear of a unit and then if you're grey seer has death frenzy you cast it on them. this give you 21 poisend attacks(with 7) i did this against a dwarf player and i was taking a rank of every turn (the guy would'nt runaway though becuase he was stubborn with a re-roll) i have used this tactic in the last few games and it has proven really useful. there is a risk though that they dont turn up and you lose the points but if you think it cost to much or is too risky you could get rid of tunnerling and use them as scouts.

also if you use a sceaming bell like i do ,you can if your lucky roll the htred one witch give you 21 poisend attacks with re-rolls.
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
The immediate flaw that I would see in this, personally, is that it leaves you very open to taking casualties from the death frenzy spell - also, having your élite assassinrats unable to sneak around can be very bad...
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Clanrat
His troops are frenzied rather than death frenzied. He will only start to lose D3 of them if he successfully casts death frenzy twice. Sounds like Vermitt has come across a really cool tactic which gives 21 poisoned attacks to the rear. Assuming Ws 4 T4 AS 4+ dwarves, that translates into 3.5 wounds per phase? As 3 man teams they already work very well against machine crews and archers, and taking a rank off every turn from dwarves sounds like those Tunnelling Teams were well worth the cost. Imagine the pain and frustration of being ripped away from the rear while other units cannot assist because you are pressing them from the front.
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Morgoth
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The Ancient Evil

hmmmm.....interesting concept.
Tests must be made, maybe with smaller units :ph43r:
I tend to field 2 tunnelteams, so after one has hopefully succesfully emerged...BAM another surprise Dev
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
yeah when i played the dwarf guy they were really woth there points his unit cost around 300 odd points and i wiped it out with only loseing 1 gutter runner infact in that game i won by a massacare i in my veiw it was thanks to them.

adn i dont cast death frenzy on them twice unless i know they are going to die and thats only normally in the last turn of the game.

the only time ive found the tactic not to have worked was when they managed to get a skirmish unit behind them although i quickly delt with them i did take causaltys and they proved less effective.

they are also very good at holding up big units as they dont get there rank and they will only get 1 or 2 attacks back this worked when i played a wood elf guy with a unit of 50 eternal guard with a standard bearer lord mage in the unit and when i played a 40 odd goblin unit with the guy with the squig in it.

i would like to see how your tests go please post info on them
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Everything Is Expendable
Clanrat
Ahahaha 50 eternal guard. That's the saddest thing I've heard all day. Why did he even consider fielding something like that?!
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Sebrent
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Vermitt Stain
Nov 27 2007, 09:22 AM
they are also very good at holding up big units as they dont get there rank and they will only get 1 or 2 attacks back

Gutter Runners are skirmishers. Skirmishers can not negate rank bonuses. Skirmishers can only get the +1/+2 for flank/rear charge IF they are US5+
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Zavratatar
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Grey Seer
Be quiet you, eternal guard are Dead 'Ard! XD

but uh, skirmishers don't negate ranks for the units they're attacking.

Edit: Dammit sebrent you beat me to it... -.-
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Azhtabak
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Sebrent
Nov 27 2007, 04:08 PM
Vermitt Stain
Nov 27 2007, 09:22 AM
they are also very good at holding up big units as they dont get there rank and they will only get 1 or 2 attacks back

Gutter Runners are skirmishers. Skirmishers can not negate rank bonuses. Skirmishers can only get the +1/+2 for flank/rear charge IF they are US5+

Agreed. Generally, I wouldn't see the point in charging them in on their own. Even with a crazy amount of poisoned attacks, there're still better uses that can be put to - you now have a team of rats that can assasinate a giant, for example. (Well, not _well_, but you get the idea - that sort of thing.) If you're charging gutter runners into units, there's probably no reason for them to be there - however good they are, something else can probably do it better.

Though, I will admit, being able to hit them in the back with ease is a great advantage. Personally though, I'd rather use them on war machines and suchlike - with more attacks, they can probably take on a good-size shooting unit, or even something like salamanders.

I'd say it's definitely a very nice trick that can be good to pull on someone, though - but I don't think it would work as a continuous thing. A player who's expecting it can counter it fairly easily.

Wow, I've really rambled :unsure: ....*vanishes into hole*
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Vermitt Stain
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Brain: There's only one ride that interests me - the incredible thrill ride of taking over the world! Pinky: Mmm, I think there's a height requirement for that ride.
oh i did'nt relise that skirmishers did'nt stop ranks arwell he didnt seem to notice it and he was'nt complaining.

but eternal guard are really hard seems i think its a standard he's got gives them a 5+ ward and if he gets the regen spell with his mage and casts it thats 5+ amour 5+ ward 4+ regen
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
The eternal guard might be strong - but only if you charge them. You're as fast, faster on a lot of units, and he also has to deal with a 10-trail of models, so it's going to be almost impossible for him to wheel. Stick a small unit of skirmishers alongside him and he won't be going anywhere. No marching, and any moves he tries to make to wheel will hit the skirmishers.

Then just pick it apart at will - remember, don't fight like a man, fight like a skaven. Fight the unit on your terms, and it'll die a horribly gribbly death.
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Zavratatar
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Grey Seer
Oh come on... a 50 man unit of T3 treehuggers deserves a warplightning cannon shot through it atleast three times/day... block that 600-point waste of space with two units of giant rats at 30 points each and blast their pointy little ears off!

If there's any of them still standing in turn six, when they'll be done with the ratpacks, THEN you can send in the gutters, frenzy or not. :)
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FatherSquee
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Would be a fun little trick to pull every once in a while, I think it would be best played on a tough enemy unit that's being held from the front, then come in from behind and massicare them
*want to use this on Tzeench Super Herd*
Dev
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General Vorg
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Keeper of the Squeeks and the Temple

in 2000 points, (as thats what you need to feild a grey seer) will a unit of frenzied gutterrunners make that much of a differance? Is it worth the risk. A unit of 8 gutters with poisoned h.weps costs *looks around for rulebook* ... *gives up* a fair bit of points, not to mention they may not show up. Plus I feel that your enemy will be expecting them (tunneling marker) so theyll be prepared for it. Am I over/under thinking this?

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Sebrent
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Those are quite valid points Vorg ^_^

Some armies can easily counter tunneling teams (see: dryads, fully ranked units in horde armies, etc.) While others are less able to do so (see: gunlines). As always, it just depends on what you're fighting.

One thing that will always be a constant for gutter runners is that it is a fairly simple way to get behind your opponent's line and set up crossfire opportunities when they flee. Just have to preserve that US5+.
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