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What do you commonly use with your army...
Slings 10 (47.6%)
Throwing Stars 11 (52.4%)
Total Votes: 21
Slings vs. Throwing Stars; A poll for the current discussion
Topic Started: 25th April 2007 - 02:32 AM (1,973 Views)
Warlord Skrit
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Clanrat Clawleader
Thought it would be interesting to find out what most people field with their army, since its a topic of interest for the Eshin Currently...
~Warlord Skrit
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Queetik
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"Master" Assassin
Where's the "both" option?
The Shadows of the Howling Heights are contemplating a return in 8th
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Sebrent
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I'm a sling kind of guy. I take night runners for their shooting as I think they aren't very good in close combat, usually taking the same or more wounds than they deal so I take slings since they are far superior to throwing stars when it comes to shooting. They're also ideal for protecting warplightning cannons from fliers/fast cavalry
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
I always take stars, because they are far superior when it comes to shooting compared to slings.
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Sebrent
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numerouno
Apr 25 2007, 01:09 AM
I always take stars, because they are far superior when it comes to shooting compared to slings.

Are you just ignoring the math completely? Seriously. There is only a 5" span where the stars have a better to-hit ratio than slings ... and they have to move from their position to achieve that. There is a 19" span where slings are better than stars, 2 of those scenarios the stars can't even get in range and the first one the slings don't even have to move.

How in the world can you back up the statement that stars are superior at shooting than slings?
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
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Apr 25 2007, 01:59 PM
numerouno
Apr 25 2007, 01:09 AM
I always take stars, because they are far superior when it comes to shooting compared to slings.

Are you just ignoring the math completely? Seriously. There is only a 5" span where the stars have a better to-hit ratio than slings ... and they have to move from their position to achieve that. There is a 19" span where slings are better than stars, 2 of those scenarios the stars can't even get in range and the first one the slings don't even have to move.

How in the world can you back up the statement that stars are superior at shooting than slings?

I can't, but I'm awkward ;)
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Sebrent
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Lolz, there's a difference between "personal choice" and "far superior at shooting" ... I take it you are sticking with the "they're cheaper" route ... just remember, slings aren't twice the cost of throwing stars, as you have to factor in the cost of the nightrunner ... so slings are only 2/7 = 28.5% more expensive than throwing stars ... and I already showed that that doesn't make the stars superior as given the same pts cost (thus more stars than slings) the slings still outperform the stars at shooting.
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
True, but I tend to find stars do better for me - actual battles include lots of things calculations can't, such as things in the way, the ability to move around while shooting accurately, and so on.
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Sebrent
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numerouno
Apr 25 2007, 10:07 AM
True, but I tend to find stars do better for me - actual battles include lots of things calculations can't, such as things in the way, the ability to move around while shooting accurately, and so on.

That's why my calculations include all the possible ranges enemies can be at that one or both of the weapon types can shoot at and the chances to hit for moving, standing still, long range, and short range.
----Skaven Mathhammer
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Azhtabak
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Packlord Azhtabak
Oh, they take that into account excellently - and they're brilliant equations. But in a battle, things like moving also have other factors - such as taking you out of charge range. The 2 point cost differance could also be the border between 2 small units and 1 big unit - a much more tactically flexible army.
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Sebrent
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Very true, moving can get you out of charge range ... but that is also more of a threat to you when you only have an 8" range (stars) and less so when you have an 18" range (slings). Also, moving into range (as is the only times stars perform better) can put you in danger as well or even put you in the way of your own units.

Night runners are more of a support unit, and such, shouldn't be having to perform complex maneuver just to make an impact on the battle, that should often be left for your more important units.

Also, the points cost may be the difference between 1 unit or 2 ... but that also includes the other choices in your army, not just the choice of stars or slings.

The fact still stands that there is no evidence to show that stars are superior to slings at shooting ... in fact the numbers show the contrary plain and clear.
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Aderashi
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Chieftain
hhmmz I went for trowing stars.

A skaven force should be plain cheap and night tunners perticially. Its becouse you pay 9 pts for somthing that has some bad stats if you ask me. If you compare it with skinks, now there you have a effect for points. Poison, ld 7 and coldblooded, mulible shot.

Those are good shooters. nightrunners arent (in my oppinion) I mean low str, Bs 3 no armor piercing of any kind. So If I took nightunners to shoot I would take trowingstars becouse it is cheaper and even if you had slings and the multible shots it still doesent do a lot against enemy's for instance 7 nightrunners at short range vs normal rank and file units (light armor and schield). (depending on short range and doing mutible shots).

14 shots
4,6 hits hits
2,4 wounds (T3)
1/2 kills.

Than thats only basic infantry and it just feels so bad

trowing stars
7 shots
3,5
1,75 wounds
1/ 2 kills a turn

as you can see both dont do a lot with teyr shooting so just keep em cheap witch them trowingstars :pmaster:
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Sebrent
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That's not ineffectiveness of night runners ... that's an example of inefficient use of night runners. Use them to take out enemy skirmishers, fast cavalry, and flyers (avg T3, 6+ sv)
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Aderashi
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Chieftain
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Apr 25 2007, 12:28 PM
That's not ineffectiveness of night runners ... that's an example of inefficient use of night runners.  Use them to take out enemy skirmishers, fast cavalry, and flyers (avg T3, 6+ sv)

k like that matters a lot...

Skirmishers: -1 modifyer to hit and normally plain cheap (what more can I say).
Fast cavelery: With that speed and the "low coast" of them you just shoot like 3-4 down from these buggers and they still should have the numbers to go kill kill.
Flyers : I need to say you are correct there. low T low wound flyers are alright to shoot.

But thats just how I see it.. I never really thought that the nightrunners did a lot (when shooting) they are nothing more than a small irritation to you opponent and most opponents just ignore them.
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Sebrent
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How you use troops matters a lot.

Most people only field fast cavalry in units of 5-6 ... so killing 2+ can panic them, and killing 3-4+ prevents them from negating ranks.

Take a look at wood elf glade scouts, high elf shadow warriors, dark elf shades, and other expensive skirmishers... not to mention -1 to hit is easier to kill than 5+ armor save.

Also take a look at empire riflemen, weapon team crews, archers, elf archers, etc. They are all respectable mounts of points and with slings, you can attack them from 18" away keeping you from being charged by whatever is protecting them. I'm sure if you've ever faced night goblins with war machines you know full well about the fanatic holding unit of night goblins protecting the war machines. no worries now as you don't have to get within 8" to shoot at the war machines.
----Skaven Mathhammer
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