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| Plague priest: flail or censer?; What's better? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 6th April 2007 - 05:21 PM (2,130 Views) | |
| Squeekill | 6th April 2007 - 05:21 PM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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Hey there. I've trying to save points here and there in my 2250 points army list so I can afford to get a stormdeamon and armbands of power (that, plus 11 power dice per turn makes for a nasty magic phase!). It seems like I could save 12 points by giving my plague priest a flail instead of a plague censer. Do you think I'm better off with the censer, or is it a good idea to give him a flail instead? The way I see it, if I use the censer, I will lose one wound per turn in my plague monk unit (since the plague priest is touching 5 plague monks) with a 1/6 chance that my plague priest will be the one to be wounded (which is bad!). In the ideal situation in which my unit is perfectly lined up with the enemy, my plague priest would touch 3 enemy units. Most of the time, he'll be touching 2. That means that against toughness 3 units, I will on average cause 1,5 wounds when touching 3 models, and 1 wound when touching 2 models. Against Toughness 4, that's 1 wound for 3 models and 0,66 wounds for 2 models. Any higher and I'm actually giving the advantage to my enemy. It seems like this weapon is only good against toughness 3 units that are perfectly lined up, and even then, it doesn't do much. Besides, with armbands of power, I will probably want to attack some high toughness units with mine, against which the plague censer is really not acting in my favor. Of course, when fighting enemies with ward saves, the censer is downright horrible. Now that's a lot of theory, but would you agree that I'm way better off with the flail if I plan to put my plague priest in a unit of plague monks and leave him there for the entire game? |
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| Chieftain Cazgar | 6th April 2007 - 05:47 PM Post #2 |
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Prophet of Plastic
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i like the censer because it's fluffier IMO, and against knights (almost all of which are T3) it should kill off 1 a turn, which is good IMO. but if you're scrimping for points then a flail will do the same job really. |
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| Rusty Tincanne | 6th April 2007 - 10:16 PM Post #3 |
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.
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This topic has been pretty well covered time and time again, so you could look throughthe older post for a lot of great opinions if the myriad of replies that you'll receive here don't fit your needs. Anyhow, the general opinions I've read in those posts seem to agree that it really depends on where that Priest is going to go. If he's in a unit of PCBs, then the censer is the way to go. If he's your general, then equipping him with the censer is just asking to give away VPs to your opponent. If he's in a unit of monks, then it's personal preference. There is a [mostly] universal caveat regarding giving a Priest a censer: if your priest has a censer and is in a unit of monks, put him in the front on a corner. That way less monks need to test for gas hits. On a corner just your priest and 3 monks need to test. In the middle of the front it'd be your priest and 5 monks need to test. I've always given my priest the flail. I could claim that it is so I could buy more monks, but in reality, it is also because I hate to see my "expensive" guys die at their own hands. As far as fluffieness goes, Pestilens are still skaven, so why would a priest risk his own life. He's got to live on so he can spread teh Truth to the rest of the world. There are always devotees of the horned Rat willing to take the censers up for them. |
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| Sammy the Squid | 7th April 2007 - 01:49 AM Post #4 |
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Back to retirement!
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Im always a fan of the Flail. The Censor is just too expensive for what it does, especially considering it will kill your own troops too... Censors are great, but I feel that they are better in units of Censor Bearers rather than on a character in a unit. If you want to keep it for fluff reasons then thats fine, but if you need to save points you wont loose much by swapping it for a flail... - Sammy |
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"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!" Wins/Losses/Draws Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20 Dark Elves - 44/14/8 Hochland Empire - 33/14/4 Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4 Beastmen - 50/25/2 Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!! | |
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| Squeekill | 7th April 2007 - 03:24 AM Post #5 |
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Clanrat
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I only see one page in this forum, with 12 threads. Do the threads get automatically purged over time? It seems like I'll be switching to a flail. Thanks for the advice. |
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| Rusty Tincanne | 7th April 2007 - 05:28 AM Post #6 |
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.
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At teh bottom of the Pestilens page tehre are command that say "showing ...." The last box is a scrool down bar and you can choose the last 30, 60 or 90 days, or from teh beginning. Switch that and then hit "Go." That should do ya. If you end up woth an army employing more than one priest I'd say get one with a censer, at least. That way the enemy will thin they all have flail until... WHAMO!
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| Azhtabak | 7th April 2007 - 08:33 AM Post #7 |
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Packlord Azhtabak
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I am personally a fan of the censer, but only when the priest is either on his own, or in a skirmishing unit - preferably censer bearers themselves. In a ranked unit, it's just too devastating to your own troops. If you need to get points from somewhere, that's probably a good place to drop 11 points. |
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| Sir Plague-a-lot | 7th April 2007 - 03:02 PM Post #8 |
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Clanrat
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I usually donīt take for the reasons youīve mentioned. Scince the casualtis count for combat it means your more likely to help your opponent then your self (you taking 6 test and him 3, or if on a corner 4 against 2 test). But if facing brettonians, then itīs of course a must have, you might want to take it against chaos mortals also. cheers |
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| Skalpit "the one Eyed" | 9th April 2007 - 09:46 AM Post #9 |
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Why don`t you use a second hand weapon instead of a flail? It costs the same but in my opinion it`s better to use a second hand weapon because the priest will get the extra attack for ever while the strength bonus of the flail olny counts in the first round of close combat. And with the flail he is the one who attacks after the other models, with the second hand weapon he would be one of the first. I think one of the best equipments for a plague priest are the "bands of power" the "warpstone amulet" and two hand weapons. Because than he`s got 5 attacks with a strength of 8 (when the bands are activated) and I think that a strength of 8 is enough. Greetz Skalp |
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| Chieftain Cazgar | 9th April 2007 - 10:06 AM Post #10 |
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Prophet of Plastic
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the bands are good, but at PL4 it's not too unlikely that your opponent will dispell (especially if they save a dice or 2 knowing that you have it) and leave you at only S4. S4 is fine for hurting average R&f T3 troops. but really, are you going to employ your monster like priest to go after basic troops? it has been proven by those that choose to use chaos warriors, that higher strength is always more valuable than more attacks. that is why halberds are usually chosen by people who have a better understanding of the game than 2nd hand weapons are. yes, flails are one hit wonders. but S6 is what it takes to smash through enemy knights/characters/anything dwarven's armour. the gas adds to it's anti armour effect. in a unit of monks, it's almost always the censer for me. it's just cooler. and i usually take 25-30 monks in a unit anyway. meaning that 3 dead rats and 2 dead enemys (the most kills it can cause when i stick him in a corner) is very good. and when the flail strength bonus goes away you still have the anti armour of the gas
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| Squeekill | 9th April 2007 - 12:31 PM Post #11 |
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Clanrat
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The chances that your bands will go off does increase substantially when you have the equivalent of 13 power dice. ![]() Still, if I want to get some killing done, I have to win the combat. That might be hard to do if I'm suffering more wounds than the enemy. |
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| Lt Merthak | 9th April 2007 - 12:42 PM Post #12 |
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Rat of many titles
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How did this evolve from a topic on flails? |
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| Chieftain Cazgar | 9th April 2007 - 12:56 PM Post #13 |
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Prophet of Plastic
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i assume it's now changed to a general: "Plague priest? what equipment, and why?" if you've got the magic to back up the bands then sure they're great. not everyone uses such a plethora of magic, it's those people that may struggle to get it off. in a balanced list (as in like 6-7 PD type of thing) it will probably be more difficult. i'm going to use an example involving a unit of knights. because that's what the censer was designed to kill. if you're up against goblins or some other crap then obviously it's a waste. knights (excluding the bretonnia kind) are usually in units of around 5. if you inflict the maximum casualtys then that's 2 of his dead from gas. 3 of yours dead from gas. then i'd imagine that another 1 or 2 will die from the actual flail hits. that's 3 already dead. let's say he charged and got 4 wounds through. you have 7 dead monks. he has 3 dead knights. you also had 3 ranks, standard and outnumber. so you're on CR 8. he has a banner and 7 kills. so CR 8 for him too. he doesn't have a muscian any more (he only has standard and champ left) so he loses combat. even if he holds it doesn't matter any more. 2 knights with 3 S3 or 4 attacks isn't going to achieve much now is it? and i was being very generous with the amount of monks that die. in reality 1 should die from gas at most and he'll be able to kill around 3. meaning he's much more likely to lose. next round he'll be overwhelmed by combat res and will flee never to return or be crushed under pestilens paw. the censer generally guarantees that 1 of the enemys models will die per combat phase it's involved in. despite armour and what not. against low point troops it is indeed worthless. against T3 tin cans it is priceless
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| Skalpit "the one Eyed" | 9th April 2007 - 04:32 PM Post #14 |
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I only want to give another option to equipp the priest with ![]() But here is my answer to the original question: I would prefer the cencer because members of clan pestilence only fail the test when you roll a 6 on a d6 while your enemys fail this test in most cases on a 4+. So the chance that more enemys die than more of your monks is high enough to use the cencer. Even if there are only 2 Knights in cotact the chance that both models fail the test is higher than the chance to roll five times a 6 for the test you have to do for the monks. And the good thing of the cencer is that the gas will be activated in every CC phase while the strength bonus of the flail only counts for the first round of CC. But the plague priest shouldn`t stay in the middle of your first rank, if he stands in one of the corners of this rank there are less monks in contakt with him so you have to roll less d6 and the chances that more monks will survive is higher When he stands in a corner there are only 3 monks in contact with him so the gas could only kill 3 monks (worst case).Greetz Skalp |
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| Rusty Tincanne | 10th April 2007 - 04:02 AM Post #15 |
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.
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"Worst Case" is NOT 3 or 5 monks dying (depending on Priest location). Worst Case is teh Priest dying. Free VP's to the enemy. And a 1 in 6 chance is pretty good odds that he'll die, too. Too good for me to take the chance frequently. still, you all have given some great arguments as to why to take teh censer. I'll definitely take one some time and test it out. |
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When he stands in a corner there are only 3 monks in contact with him so the gas could only kill 3 monks (worst case).