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is my army too powerful?
Topic Started: 15th February 2007 - 06:21 PM (554 Views)
Chieftain Cazgar
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Prophet of Plastic
ok, bret's are generally thought of as a power gamers army. i started and thought "forget that, i'm going to make a balanced force. peasants and knights united"

well, today at my local GW the idea was to play as if you were in a tournement. so it's not about fun, it's about winning. a poor concept to build a game on, but never mind lol.

i played 3 games and won each one by a masacre. losing 5-6 models maximum each game. which, isn't very many at all by any standards.

my list was:
paladin with lance, shield, barded horse and a thing to re-roll hits
BSB with barded horse and in one game he had MR3 instead of the general having re-roll hits.

8 realms with FC and warbanner
8 errants with FC and errantry banner (S6 when charging)

3 pegasus with FC
5 mounted yeomen with sheilds and muscian

trebuchet sometimes with a champion depending on the paladins' equipment

i played against gun heavy dwarves (2 units of hand gunners, 2 cannons and 1 block of warriors with a thane in) and got a massacre. then i was up against undivided chaos (2 units of marauders, unit of warriors, sorcerer, champion, chariot) another massacre. and then the best player in my store challenged me (figured he'd put me back in my place, i'm generally a mild mannered chap with a balanced army list, but i was getting a little arrogant by the end of my 2nd game). he had a khorne mortals army (exalted daemon, champion, warriors, marauders, furies). this time i lost my trebuchet to the furies, but otherwise another masacre (pegasus knights killing the daemon prince on the second turn). at the end of each game the enemy was left with nothing (usually by turn 4).

so basicly, i'm wondering is my list too good to use in a friendly battle? if you and I were playing and it was just a friendly game for fun would you mind facing this list?

my first opponent complained about facing bret's, and declared he'd lost before we'd rolled for first turn lol. but he played anyway, and he did lose horribly. i think that against a mage heavy army i would struggle, as i only have MR3 for 1 unit, but in the game where i did face a mage i just killed it on the second turn with the MR3 knights anyway (it was the only thing that wounded me). multiple mages could probably cause a problem.

so, what are you thoughts on the list in a friendly game?
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SingTheScreams
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Call me Sings

that just seems like a good list, for sure I would use it. its no fun if you dont challenge each other
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arqueek
 
no need to worry for soul, instead starts worshipping STS and slaughtering unbelievers in his holy name.
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Mormeguil
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baby nurgle
well i would use it sporadicly. Bretonian are very hard to beat. I won't refuse to play against them but if it happen to often it get boring. Playing when you know that winning is going to require a qhole lot of help is hard.

Last tournament i face a bretonian army with my magic heavy list. Some people judged my list cheese due to 11 powerdice, no other shooting. I used a strong list but nothing overwhelming. I played against bretonian during my first game.

He used 2 units of peasant, one small knig unit and 3 large one. I played well, delaying the charge, skitterleaping my grey seer and using pestilence breath. He only charged me on turn 3 and even then those charge where not lethal, i still had other clanrat around.

Now is mostly a 40k player and i played very well. He fell in a few of my trap my magic worked normally. I did'n have any incredible bad luck but he had one. Is big unit of knight charged my clanrat unit. I made more kill then him :blink: and won the combat. He flee never to rallie. During that time my clanrat overun and flank charge another unit of knight defeating it.

The scenario was about who had the biggest unit strenght in the middle of the table.

The scenario was at my advantage, nothing went horribly wrong. i was more experienced then my opponent and my list was touhgt (had 14 plague censer). With all these factor included My opponent had to have an horrible to even win the game.

So you see bretonian are incredibly strong and even when everything is in your favor and you still loose. Well thats just annoying to play against. I enjoy the challenge from time to time but if someone played only bretonian i would'n always want to play with them

So if you play bretonian use them sporadicly and maybe, try a peasent heavy list supporte by small lance of 6 knight.
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kingle tut
Chieftain
In a friendly game...don't play so well. ^_^

It seems a fair army, but to give opponents a chance when you think you'll just masacre them (not that much fun, really), try not to do anything really mean that they just can't avoid. Throw a small unit away now and then. Don't specifically aim to loose, though.

I generally find brets quite fun to play against though, it's a challenge to get through the armour, but gets you to think around the problem. :D
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Sebrent
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It's fine playing as Brettonians. If a person survives your initial charge, you are in trouble. That's generally the golden rule when fighting Brettonians as their lance formation doesn't get all those wonderful attacks in the subsequent rounds, nor do you get to use your lances +2S. The problem most people have is that they are not use to fighting all/heavy cavalry armies and such are not use to countering the weakness of knights. Keep playing as you want. I think you're fine.
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Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

Nah, your army is definately not too powerful, and I wouldnt complain about facing such a list... Ive had my fare shame of games against fairly overpowering Bret armies (the worst being a SoC Errantly list with over 90 knights, trebuchet, archers in 2500pts), and yours isnt even close to cheesey...

I do think its amusing though that your first oponent (shooty dwarfs!) accused you of being cheesey! Thats just funny! :lol:

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dublinlaxd
Stormvermin
Every army has its weakness and most of the time its more than just what you field. You said it yourself, against a magic heavy army yours would falter. Also, against an army that might swarm or could take a charge your army would have trouble. But Ive found that part, a very big part, of winning is the general himself. Ive seen armies that I know should have lost based on the two armies playing, and the underdog took it.

Another thing is that powerful army types are really only powerful for certain other army types. For instance, a find that I would pit a VC army against any Orc army and win 9 out of 10 times while I know the same VC army may get wrecked by almost any ogre army. Its strengths vs. weaknesses, plain and simple.

And if you dont have fun win or lose then why play? Even in competitive atmospheres why play if you cant have fun?

So no, I think your army is not too powerful. I actually like it.
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Lupinbell of Slashkrit
Clanrat
That army looks fine. A power-Army is 100+archers and 30+knights along with 3 Pegasis Knights (sp), a trebuchet, a some charecters that I just cant remember.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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The Freshmaker

No, its a fine list. The main thing you're forgetting, though, is that you played small and expensive armies. Against a horde army (such as.....oh, I dont know.....SKAVEN) you might actually have a hard time. Sure, you got hitting power on the charge, but thats useless in a protracted fight. Couple of big units of clanrats, some jezzails or a WLC, maybe a warlock engineer or two and you'd be really struggling.
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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Kreknch
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I agree with the point of strengths and weaknesses. Armies with cheap screens, horde armies and just armies in general with lots of save reduction and killingblow would pose a much bigger challenge for your list.

It seems like you mostly played against more compact armies with more survivability, but no real good way to stop you from out manuevering them.

I used to play a similar list a while ago, it did pretty well against most armies, espeically the compact ones, but then I played against Goblins....

lets just say it hurts when a madcapped fanatic goes directly through a full regiment of knights. :P
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Wargamejunkie
Warlord
Looks good to me. I think there are very few "cheesy" armies out there. Besides it was a tournament so they should have brought their A game and expected you to do the same.
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Chieftain Cazgar
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Prophet of Plastic
yeah, i havn't faced off against horde armys.

magic would do me over as i stated, but i don't know about horde armys. one chaos army i played against had around 40-50 marauders, 15ish warriors. but then again, nothing especially expendable...

a slave screen, or anything that the opponent won't think twice about fleeing will probably do me a bit of pain. and maybe jezzails/fanatics due their massive save reduction abilitys. although i would get my 5+ ward. but against the dwarves i didn't fair too badly (well i won but still :P ) , and that was 20 hand guns and 2 cannons, which is quite a bit of fire power.

yet to face a horde army with my bret's. so far i've smashed ogres, elves (high and dark variety), empire, lizards, tomb kings, chaos and dwarves into the ground. yet to find an army style that beats me.

against mage/gunline empire i won, and he had 30 swords, 20 hand guns, 8 cav, mage, 2 priests, outriders and a cannon. but like with all games using my bret's. the moment a lance crashes into the enemy it's all over for them.

the two types of army i'm yet to face is monouverable(woodys) and horde (skaven, gobbos). but with anyluck this coming saturday i'll face off against some wood elves.

my opponent already thinks bret's are over powered and that he'll be up against it, exactly what i need lol. i'll drop my treb out for a mage with the chalice of malfleur for that game, because a stone throwers not much use against an army composed of fast cav and skirmishers lol.
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Mutator
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Retired fat dude

Cheiftan Cazgar
Feb 16 2007, 06:21 AM
i played against gun heavy dwarves (2 units of hand gunners, 2 cannons and 1 block of warriors with a thane in) and got a massacre.

then i was up against undivided chaos (2 units of marauders, unit of warriors, sorcerer, champion, chariot) another massacre.

he had a khorne mortals army (exalted daemon, champion, warriors, marauders, furies).

so basicly, i'm wondering is my list too good to use in a friendly battle?


I've highlighted the point-soak infantry(?) units you faced. Kill those and you win the battle. No real struggle for 2 bret lances and a unit of peg knights.

After that, you can focus on parts or all of the rest of their armies and finish them off.

No offence to your opponents, but their lists weren't that hot relative to yours. They just didnt have the mobility or disposable elements required to redirect and pounce on bretonnians.

If the scenery was to conspire against them (your army would love a flat table which was featureless except for a hill in either deployment zone) then they were always going to be in trouble.

If you want a more evenly matched game then (i) substitute those errants for peasant infantry/archers, or (ii) encourage your opponents to invest in fast cav, chaos hounds, miners and other small (relatively) cheap distraction units.
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Sebrent
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Aye, Mutator made many good points. Your opponents may want to learn how to bait and flee as well... direct charges. Everyone knows that when you charge Brettonians, they aren't so hot ... S3, lol.
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Frankensqueek
Doomwheel Driver
I'd first like to say that it's Bretonnians, not Bretonians or Brettonians. I don't mean to be picky, but it may as well be spelt right :)

I don't think the list is too powerful. If your opponents don't like it then either ignore them, or maybe change one or two units each battle. Such as one battle use a trebuchet then the next game replace it with a unit or two of men at arms.


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Rusty
 
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