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OH MY GOD!!!; The Empire
Topic Started: 18th December 2006 - 03:19 AM (2,564 Views)
Bodacious
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chieftainskritchskritch
 
But, all that aside, what REALLY ticks me off is that now the empire make dwarfs look like idiots with their technology.


QFT (Quoted for Truth)

Makes me remember some dwarven grudges in the games workshop dwarves preview article it does:

games workshop
 
The Organ Gun pales in comparison to the Empire Helblaster Volley Gun. Didn't we teach the manlings about black powder?
Now, the Organ is much deadlier with an increased range. Thus, you can start blasting away from Turn 1. Plus, you have the option to re-roll the number of hits you cause.

Dwarf Engineers taught the Men of the Empire all they know, yet the Dwarfs seem inferior to the manlings.
There are two types of Engineers in the new list. Master Engineers are heroes and bestow a variety of benefits when they join war machine crews. For instance, Cannons inflict D6 Wounds rather than D3, and Bolt Throwers roll to hit based on the Master Engineer's BS5! Engineers act as unit Champions for artillery crews and also make the war machines they join more accurate.


And within a few months: the dwarves are the underdogs of technology again and these grudges can be added fresh to their big book again. In the blood of the High King. Makes me regret choosing the empire as my second army it does <_< .

Cheers,
Bodacious.
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Lightbringer
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Well... then just think about what they will need to give the Dwarfs to make them better when it comes to guns again... *shudders*
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Chieftain Cazgar
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i was reading on the bretonnian forums that all the army books released this side of 7th ed are going to have better things. so if you compare it to a 6th ed army they're over powered, but against another 7th ed army they arn't.

so that means that skaven are going to have long range rattling guns and dwarves will have whatever the empire had but more accurate lol. (i made this last sentance up, don't go crazy about such things happening!)

so, basicly it won't be long until even the lizardmen are using gun powder to hurl 5 artillery-dice S6 shots that hit on 4s at our ratties too :P (again, made that one up too lol)

7th ed is going to be like this for everyone with access to gun-powder no doubt. just be thankful skaven do :P
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Mallekha the Overwhelmer
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maybe the 7th ed armies will be stronger, but the Dwarfs have just recently been updated with a new army book. Itll be till the next edition for a new dwarf army book i think as all the other armies deserve an update before the dwarves do.

I do agree though, the dwarves have once again been put to shame with their techmology...
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Astragoth
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The era of the dwarfs is ending.... they are a dying race. It is only natural that the young race of humans will overtake them.


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s'nkeep
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im sure the dwarf versions misfire a bit less

wonders if those pigeon are gunna put grot bombers out of work :lol:
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Mebob
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Quote:
 
  i was reading on the bretonnian forums that all the army books released this side of 7th ed are going to have better things. so if you compare it to a 6th ed army they're over powered, but against another 7th ed army they arn't.


So effectively all armies which have not been updated will struggle to combat 7th edition armies untill they get their update in so many years time? *grumbles to self* Gamesworkshop has been making me grumble more than a dwarf who has just been outshown by an elf! ah the future of warhammer*imagines a perfect wood elf army charge in with blackpowder bows*
Has any body also noticed the models? the way they make them now? i've looked in white dwarf were they show you whats in the sprues and for some time now every box set they release has their torso attacthed to the legs and possible an army or two on there, now i don't know what anyone else thinks of this, but i HATE it! it means when we want to do that all simple body part swap we will have to get out our hobby knife and probaly accedently cut off important parts of the model, and many people (e.g. me) enjoy customising our models as much as we can, but don't have the sculpting skills to remoddel damaged parts of a model, it makes customising harder, when previously we could of got a few box sets and have unlimited oppourtunity to mix and match pieces with ease, and no cutting off limbs required!

Also the empire models quite frankly they suck, personally i prefer the old rank and file look of the empire plastics, and not the every "model is in a stabbing motion" look, *dreads what they do to skaven*

Skaven better remain a horde army, and keep all of its charecteristics that makes it unique.

*goes off grumbleing to self aobut gamesworkshop*

The only thing gamesworkshop has done recently that i think is very good, is the hero sets, easily customisable and a nice variety of models can be made out of just the set on its own, without conversion! (although conversion is needed to make a general :) ) but then the price kind of draws me away from it, £12 for 2 models! Bah! for £6 more you can get 20 skaven, i hate the way warhammer is so expensive :(, oo and the battle for skull pass seems to ahve more models in the a battalion despite being £10 cheaper, but shame it incluedes no skaven :(
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garthvader
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yes i totaly agree with you mebob about the new emprie models having no difference at all and about the legs and torso put together. its happened to every race even when the lustria campaign came out our plauge monks wat happened to them... torso and legs joined together -_- and also what happend to their regiment box now you get a unit of 10 for the price (IRL) of a unit of 20 <_<

but on a lighter note the new models appart from the poses are stunning to look at and have any of you guys seen the powder monkey in the handguners set :lol: that is so cool!
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Mutator
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Funny, I rather like the new empire models. Less puny for a start. The special ones are more ornate and gothic, and the generic ones more dynamic. Shame about the vanilla knight horses still being in use. How old is that style of horse now anyway? 20 years?

I dont think the army is that much harder, and I think the new checks and balances they've put in (as mentioned previously on this thread) go some way to curbing some of the more 'extreme' builds.

I'd seriously want to field a Stank now that the rules have been simplified and brought closer towards how stuff 'normally' works.

The 'increased' technology is fine too, IMO. Rocket batteries were used in the napoleonic wars, an age of blackpowder entirely in keeping with existing Empire gunpowder technology.

I'm giving the new empire book both thumbs up :)
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Bodacious
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I respect your opinion on this Mutator. I too like the vast majority of the changes in the book (I mean the list of positives is waay longer than the negatives). I even like that they've kept the knights ^_^ . I was colleting a knight army anyway, so it would have totally killed me if I had to replace the stuff I allready got so soon.

But don't tell me that you can look someone straight in the face and say that it's actually perfectly logical for the empire to have the ability to field a mechanical horse :P ! That napoleon also used rocket batteries could be possible, but I can imagine the battery (that honestly reminds me more of a modern missile launcher) being a very disturbing sight to those of us that are not as well versed in napoleonic history.

Mostly though, I think that it's my personal experience with stuff like the old stank, hellblaster and other über empire gizmo's <_< . Seeing that all this new technology has suddenly become available to the empire had me frightened that more and more artilery focussed empire armies would become prominent. I can only shudder at the thought of what lists my more powergaming friends will be fielding from now on.

Time has yet to tell though. I'll at least have my fingers crossed for the more horde styled empire armies ;) . They will surely kick @ss now as well because of the cheaper infantry and the improvement of the priests and such (which I consider to be some of gw's more genius moves lately).

Cheers,
Bodacious.
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scrivener
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Jan 11 2007, 08:53 PM
Funny, I rather like the new empire models.   Less puny for a start.   The special ones are more ornate and gothic, and the generic ones more dynamic.

I agree with that. I think the concept designers did a very good job with the gothic renaissance look, and even if it doesn't fit with the rest of the style right now, Warhammer is having a trend of moving away from the high fantasy of the 80s to a darker style of gothic fantasy present today (ala Confrontation, Pan's Labyrinth, that kinda style)

My problem is a lot of the stuff don't seem to fit. Yes the western world did have rockets, but those rockets were first used in the early 19th century. Cannon artillery was developed around the 13th-14th century, and the part of the Renaissance which roughly matches where the Empire is currently at, is around 15th-16th century. Empire would be akin to early 17th century at latest. The style of the newfangled inventions being thought up back then (Da Vinci stuff for example) did include armoured chariot tanks, some really strange ballistic and gunpowder weaponry, flying machines and other weird inventions: pigeon bombs and steam-tanks may fit in, but certainly not mechanical horses, nor rockets. Rocket batteries did exist in China beforehand, but they certainly weren't that destructive, and neither was the early western version. That thing in the empire list is like a mini-tomahawk.

Fantasy is fantasy, but to be credible it needs to be realistic and consistent. I think what is happening here is simply an issue of the concept design team not being in sync with the fluff team not being in sync with the army design team.
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Blood_Claw
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You tend to pay for the abilties on the battle field then you do for models, that better the model, the more expensive they make it lol

But everbody needs a general and people will pay for them
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Skaven - 0/0/1
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kingle tut
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If that's all the crazy stuff the new empire get, I can't wait for the Skaven army book- MADNESS!!!!

Not too interested in more special characters, but any new "things" for Skaven would keep me entertained. I expect there'll be some Stormvermin changes- they don't seem too popular right now (though I wouldn't mind trying them).

Overall, the empire stuff seems fine(ish) in effect, provided people don't go all out with the weird stuff in small games. Though the rocket launcher and grenade launcher <i>sound</i> too advanced. Even if they were called "black powder blasters" or something it would fit in better. They just sound too modern. *shrug*
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Dr. Christopher


Someone call Morbid Weasel showed me this forum Book of Cheese It's an archive forum that is run by 12 guys that are paid to decide what is and isn't cheese. They are closed for 2007 updates but have a hastily built up analysis of the Empire stuff. I myself have yet to see the forum myself but I hear it's fairly lengthy on descriptions and tactics.

Note: That joining this forum is pointless as it is an archive only forum and joining give you n0 extra benifits that you would get if you were a guest. It is also unofficial but since there is nothing else like this it is very much used to identify cheesy armies.
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Mutator
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Bodacious
Jan 12 2007, 09:30 AM
But don't tell me that you can look someone straight in the face and say that it's actually perfectly logical for the empire to have the ability to field a mechanical horse :P !


Orcs have a mechanical pig, so why not? Even the ogres have an (unofficial) mechanical rhinox...

Quote:
 
That napoleon also used rocket batteries could be possible, but I can imagine the battery (that honestly reminds me more of a modern missile launcher) being a very disturbing sight to those of us that are not as well versed in napoleonic history.


'Sharpe's Rifles', mate :P

Strangely eough, I find the idea of a helstorm more palatable than a helblaster. But the model is a dog.

BTW checked out the Book of Cheese, and it looks like a bunch of whingeing to me.
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