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How to shoehorn in a Cauldron.
Topic Started: 9th January 2006 - 12:09 PM (548 Views)
Brother Buboe
Stormvermin
To be fair I think the guy did express himself badly. I'm guessing that he meant that as the Big N is a compulsory part of the army, then not taking him is bad. Anyway, all done and dusted.

On the Big N vs Cauldron subject .... we had a big debate on this at my local club and came to the agreement that the list is more "open to abuse" if you allow it without Nurglitch. Lets face it, an army that can cast plague five times in one magic phase is pretty nasty! Even multiple wound armies (like ogres) can be brought down by that kind of assault.

Also, if you go for the pontifex and cauldron and (20) plague monks to push it, you end up with a unit that costs more than Nurglitch!!!!!

I would strongly suggest that you give the list a go with Big N, at least once or twice. Personally I think he is a great character and does wonders on the battlefield. I'm just not sure about armies that rely on that one trick approach.
cheers
Buboe

The Brighton and Clayton Warlords Website


[AKA Sha'a'alaar, The Ancient One, on druchii.net]
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Yeah you are right, I should give the big N a go. I don't however get to play that often (once a week max) so when I do play I like to try out things that I will be using in tournaments. Listening to you guys makes me wnt to try him.

I have to admit that most armies are open to abuse depending on the player, just look at the SAD or RAF armies. I personally have never maxed out the court with magic. Max 3 chantors. I can see why you would want to cast 5 plagues a turn but that is unlikly really. 3 dice to cast is unlikley to cast more than 3 times a turn (1 from cauldron and 50% of wizards sucsefully casting) more likly to try 3 dice + token. Thats a lot of possible miscasts. Also a unit can only be affected by 1 plague a turn. All this for 800/900pts. Why bother.

Anyway back to the cauldron. My reasons for useing it are as follows.

1 I like the reliabilty of a plague you know will work.
2. I only need to take 1 wizard for two plagues.
3.The impact hits in combat can be nice.
4. The fluff for it is nice.
5. I bought the stuff for a model so I may as well make it!
6. People are scared of it.

The list I test drove still found it hard to get through an average magic defence so I prob need another chantor anyway.

I have to admit I am enjoying this little chat. Does anyone else use it?
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Brother Buboe
Stormvermin
SEDGE55
 
more likly to try 3 dice + token. Thats a lot of possible miscasts.
That's the way I tend to do it, taking 2 extra warpstone tokens per lvl2 so that they can continue to use four dice well into the game. Haven't had too many wounds so far!

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3.The impact hits in combat can be nice.
Haven't yet managed to charge anything with it.


Came across a nasty situation for the cauldron - fighting wood elves the other day (because every other army at the moment round here is WEs!!!!!!) and they managed to get a killing blow bow shot on the pontifex. I know it's not very likely, but just to warn you guys.

cheers
Buboe

The Brighton and Clayton Warlords Website


[AKA Sha'a'alaar, The Ancient One, on druchii.net]
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

Sedge, I have been following this thread and find it very interesting as well. As I am a newbie I am a bit lost on some of the things thusfar. I'm hanging in there, though and things'll start to clear up eventually.

I'm interested in teh varying sizes of units of PM's. I kind of thought that it'd be best to have units of the same unit strength so that there'd be less chance of a cascading flee response. I guess that isn't a problem with Frenzy, though.

Also, if you don't like the Nurglitch model, check out Nagash's album as a conversion alternative. He made a palaquin carried by two of the older PCB's. The model used for Nurglitch is a heavily converted Skrolk. It's fantastic and very inspiring.

Here are a couple of questions I have thought of while reading this:

If the Pontifex gets whacked can the cauldron continue to cast plague? The rules (don't have them handy) mention that it works like the bell and with the bell the bell ringer can continue to ring the bell sans grey seer. is this the same with the cauldron? If it cannot then it becomes a very expensive battering ram.

Speaking of impact hits, do those count only when charging a unit, or can they be rerolled if the unit is hung up in a long winded clash?

Thanks

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Dan_S
Clanrat
Farsight : Yes your right, bad choice of words. Did not mean that he was cheating, just using it as a figure of speech to get a point across.

Sedge55 : I don't really know if it balances or unbalances. I just always figured army composition is not something that should be messed with as it is the main balancing factor in Games Workshop games. It limits what you can take and stops you from loading up on certain things (Well to a decent degree it does at least.)

So the only point i was trying to make was that GW says he is compulsary for the list, they are basically saying they have balanced the list for him in it.

But then again, i am new to Fantasy, mabye it's as screwed up and unbalanced as 40K after all.

Hope you didn't take offence to my comment, like i said to Farsight, i did not mean to accuse you of cheating, was just trying to make a point.
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Dan_S
Clanrat
SEDGE55
Jan 12 2006, 03:45 AM
Dan_S have you ever used a cauldron? I am curious.

I'm still building my Skaven force (First warhammer army).
But i am gonna build a cauldron for larger games. My army is pretty magic heavy so will rely on multiple plagues per turn.
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Quote:
 
f the Pontifex gets whacked can the cauldron continue to cast plague? The rules (don't have them handy) mention that it works like the bell and with the bell the bell ringer can continue to ring the bell sans grey seer. is this the same with the cauldron? If it cannot then it becomes a very expensive battering ram.

Speaking of impact hits, do those count only when charging a unit, or can they be rerolled if the unit is hung up in a long winded clash?


@Rusty Tincanne. I would say that it does get to cast plague. As the bell says it is the ringer 'casting' not the grey seer. It then says that the cauldron work exactly as per the bell rules. Prehaps I should have modled 2 skaven on my cauldron?

Impact hits are only used when you charge.

The diffrent size units are so that I have combat units and disposable units which are only 60pts.

@ Dan_c I don't really know if it balances or unbalances either. The people I play don't seem to mind fighting the bubonic court with out the Big N. As for not messing with GWs army list. They are so frequently messed up by themselves that I don't feel any remorce doing it myself ^_^
P.s No offence taken at all. bring on the discussion. :)
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Dan_S
Clanrat
Sedge55 : Just curious how your list has worked for you so far. I'm planning to go magic heavy myself at 2K, with Nurglitch and 2 Chanters. Do multiple plagues work well each turn ?? (Well i guess out of 3 you should get 1 off so it ain't to bad).

Also curious how you plan to arm the Pontifex. I mean he is a Mage, but he's also Str 4, T5 and 3 Attacks. Not to shabby for a mage.

I was thinking Blade of Black Fury and Bands of Power. This will be 5 Str 8 Attacks, and theres still enough points for the Warpstone Charm if i want a ward save. (And after 3 plagues i doubt theres much Dice of Dispel scrolls left, so i should get the bands off)

What do you think ?

PS. What did you use to Model your Chanters, currently stuck on them, just proxied a plague monk for my test games.
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Well at moment my pontifex has a flail warpstone charm? (5+ ward save) 2 dispel and 2 extra tokens. Not a combat monster at all :D . I haven't used it much (one game so far) but I am taking a similar list at weekend to the Sheffield Slaughter. this is a verry competitive tournament run by the Dragon slayers. Apparantly the armies will be of th epowerful variety :blink:

I will let you know how I get on with a full run down of what I used.

The models I use for the chantor is either the old skrolk model or a plastic PM with the book. I will have to post a piccie of my cauldron for you guys to nose at as well.
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Quote:
 
I was thinking Blade of Black Fury and Bands of Power. This will be 5 Str 8 Attacks, and theres still enough points for the Warpstone Charm if i want a ward save. (And after 3 plagues i doubt theres much Dice of Dispel scrolls left, so i should get the bands off)


I really like this combo. Very poweful in combat.
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

Sedge,

Have you tried using rotten rodents as you small, disposable screen units? If not, why not? They would be cheaper still - or given add. weapons - and Frenzy could be cast on them.


Mutate - sorry, I was thinking of the Pussbag price when I wrote that.
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