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How to shoehorn in a Cauldron.
Topic Started: 9th January 2006 - 12:09 PM (549 Views)
SEDGE55
Unregistered

Well I have been using the bubonic court for some time now with various results. I really like the idea of the cauldron as a modeling project as well as on the battlefield. It does seem very expensive for what it does. I have decided to give it ago tonight. I have attached a list for you to judge. Tell me what you think and I will write a battle report tommorow.

2000PTS Robert Sedgeman 1998

GENERAL
PLAGUE PREIST 70pts
BANDS OF POWER +25pts Flail +4pts 99pts

PLAGUE PREIST 70pts
Battle Standard Bearer +25pts, War Banner+25 120pts

PLAGUE PREIST 70pts
WARPSTONE AMULET +25pts Flail +4pts 99pts

LVL 2 PONTIFEC 2 warpstone token 145 –
2 Extra warpstone token + 20pts 2 x Dispel scoll +50pts Flail +6
WARPSTONE CHARM +30pts Cauldron of a thousand poxs 451pts


CORE
20 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR “Banner of the Swarm” +25 165pts

20 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR 145pts

16 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR 121pts


10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts


SPECIAL
6 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 102pts

6 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 102pts

6 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 102pts

6 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 102pts

RARE
1 RAT SPAWN 75pts
1 RAT SPAWN 75pts
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Brother Buboe
Stormvermin
I have been using a pontifex and cauldron for three games now - devastating!

Just a few things on your list -

- isn't the Pontifex a lord and wouldn't that make him the general?
- how many monks have you got pushing the cauldron? I use 20 with full command.
- I've also been using a lvl2 with this combination, to give three goes at plague each turn

- Do you use the units of 10 PMs a lot? It isn't something I've tried and would be interested to see how they do.

- And nothing but PMs, PCBs and spawn? I like the rogres myself so would again be interested in hearing how these all fare. And I don't know if I could do without the swarms. Using rogres and swarms also gives a bunch of M6 units which can help threaten the enemy.

cheers

Br Buboe

The Brighton and Clayton Warlords Website


[AKA Sha'a'alaar, The Ancient One, on druchii.net]
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

I'm really looking forward to trying this list out. I will explain some of my decisions.

Characters. This is ment to be a magic reduced list. It can cast pos 2 plagues a turn. and defend against returning magic with 2 dispel. Most spell don't worry me to much (direct damage anyway), its the movement spell that have got me on the past. We all know those spell you MUST stop. I will use the cauldron first with 2/3 dice followed by pontifex with 4 dice. I know its not as good as having the extra chantor but I fancied the hitting power of the 3 plague Preists. The Preists are kitted for the following roles - reducing wounds caused in by challenging enemy character, chariot killer and plague censor bearer support with standard and warbanner.

the 10 x monk units are fab. I use them as bait, flank support, reducing unwanted compulsary charges, forcing enemy deployment and harrasing weak combat units. The frenzy means that they never take test for panic from shooting and just a few can cause some archer units real problems. All this for 60 pts a go!

I also HATE the rat ogre. I just can't get the hang of them. They work better if teamed up with frothing giant rats but I don't want to loss the PCBs.
I agree the swarms would be useful but I can't seem to find the points.

Still we will have to see how it goes. Thanks for the comments.
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Ok so how did it go?

Well I played a dark elf army approx like this-
Lord on Peg
Hero on horse
Lvl 1 2 scolls
Battle std with 2+ save.

19 Black Guard (stubborn) with BSB
15 spearmen with lvl1
10 corsairs
10 corsairs
6 harpies
6 light cav
6 light cav
6 light cav
2 bolt throwers

Nice well balanced list. Prehaps a bit weak magical defence.

1/ I let him have turn 1
He moved 2 units of light cav down RH flank with hero support and light cav with lord down LH flank. Rest of amy shuffled forwards. BTs stung but not to bad

I was centrally placed so forced down centre with army split into 3. RH - 10 PM, 2x6 PCB, RSpawn, hero and BSB, LH - 20 PM 6 PCB and Hero. Centre 20 PM with cauldron, 16 PM and 3x10 PM. Plague dispelled.

2/ He decided not to charge my PCB with hero in it with his peg. Retreated with LH flank popped hero on peg behind my lines ready for next turn, Advanced on RH. BT almost wiped out a unit of 10 PM.

His hero on peg was just in range of 2 units of PCBs (1/2 models each) killing it. I carried on advancing on LH forcing his hand, he fled in centre with harpies. RH - I put my Spawn in front of his hero to prevent a combined charge into my PCBs. still no plague.

3/ Lh carried on retreat. centre shuffled. RH charged. Hero on his own beat a PCB unit but they outpace him and one light cav were destroyed by PCBs, hero and bsb, the other killed 10 PM unit overrunning into flank of 16 PM unit.

LH moved right up to light cav forcing them into charging next turn. PCB units moved back onto board after overruning off. Centre 10PM charge corsair unit fluff dice and get run down. Another 10pm charge spearman unit. direct 6 attacks at wiz only cause 1 wound again run of and are caught! and PCB running from hero rally. RH - PCBs, hero and bsb charge kill only 3 light cav! Bugger then they hold!!! This is good as the BTs cannt target these units. Manage to get plague off at last. Kills half the Black Guard ! Great!

4/ LH he charges 6 light cav into 20 PM :huh: needless to say they all die. Centre Corsairs charge spawn cause a wound but get 5 back :D they run but arn't caught. centre shuffles Hero kills PCB . Neither of us wants to fight in centre yet. He acts scared of the cauldron. Good I am getting the upper hand on flanks and can wait for centre. RH kill last light cav.

LH move 20 PM around rear at full speed. Rat spawn charge fleeing corsairs but the get away. Centre angle for charge on Black Guard out of there charge range. charge hero on horse with remaining PCB hero and BSB, win combat but he holds. Charge 16 PM at BT. kill them painicing other. Plague spear unit kill all but 6 including killing the wiz! They then panic leaving the Black Guard looking a bit lonely.

5/ His remaining forces rally to await there fate. His Black Guard attempt to charge my Cauldrons unit but are out of range his corsairs charge the spawn on my RH flank.

I multi charge his Black Guard with cauldron PCB Hero and BSB other charges to finish his amy off all work well. I decide to attempt to reduce the model count in his unit with plague (dispelled), second plague failed, pest breath caused 1 wound on him and loads on me! Manage to win combat smashing the remains of his unit but they hold.

6/ Finally kill of his army!

Good game well played by him. A couple of mistakes by him caused all manner of problems for him.
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Dan_S
Clanrat
Just curious why you guys don't take Nurglitch ??

He is compulsory.
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Morkskittar
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The Tunnel's Resident Rodent Ecologist

Dan_S
Jan 10 2006, 03:59 PM
Just curious why you guys don't take Nurglitch ??

He is compulsory.

Sometimes in friendly games and some tournaments the rules are different. And most people don't like the fact that he is compulaory, and make exceptions, allowing him to not be used.

Pillz
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Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

well fought game, congrats! List looks pretty good too :)

You arent supposed to post specific points values for magic items and what-not though, GW doesnt like it... you'll probably want to remove them :)

Entaro Adun
"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!"

Wins/Losses/Draws

Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20
Dark Elves - 44/14/8
Hochland Empire - 33/14/4
Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4
Beastmen - 50/25/2

Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!!
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Nurglitch? No thanks. :blink: I have played 40 odd games with the bubonic court and I have never used the fat boy yet. I havn't even got the model! :unsure: I just don't like the idea of having a special character worth 1/4 of the whole army cost.

I have used the Bubonic court in 3 turnaments so far. The bristol Brawl (1500pts), Warhammer PLayers Society GT(2000pts) and the Midlands Masacre(1500pts). In the WPSGT Nurglitch was actually allowed. People enjoyed the list as an intresting version of the Skaven background. People did however think the army is harder than it actually is due to the possibility of so many plague spells.
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Brother Buboe
Stormvermin
Most of my court lists/games have been with the Big N in the army, and he is a great character. However, I wanted to try using the list without him as he is such a huge point sink. Unfortunately, if you go the pontifex/cauldron route you end up with an equally huge point sink!!

Also, whilst many people cry foul on a special character, I believe it is possible to write a very broken list if you don't use Nurglitch. Hey, who wants to cast plague five times a turn?

Now I'm going to go for a list without either of these characters to try a more combat court.

cheers

Buboe

The Brighton and Clayton Warlords Website


[AKA Sha'a'alaar, The Ancient One, on druchii.net]
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

That is the kind of list I hve been using. I have attached my more combat orientated version below for your intrest. This list is quite well rounded I think. The brass orb can be a BIG waste of points but very occasionally it is brill! I zapped a chaos giant in one shot. It was great to see.

GENERAL
PLAGUE PREIST
Flail 74pts

PLAGUE PREIST
Brass Orb , Flail 124pts

LVL 2 FESTERING CHANTOR 2 warpstone token
2 Extra warpstone token Dispel scoll 155pts

LVL 2 FESTERING CHANTOR 2 warpstone token 110 –
Additional hand weapon
2 Extra warpstone token Dispel scoll 159pts


CORE
20 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR WAR BANNER 170pts

20 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR 145pts

16 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR 121pts

16 x PLAGUE MONKS
STD MUS LDR 121pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

10 x PLAGUE MONKS 60pts

1 PLAGUE RAT SWARM 65pts

SPECIAL
7 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 119pts

7 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 119pts

7 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 119pts

7 PLAGUE CENSOR BEARERS 119pts

RARE
1 RAT SPAWN 75pts
1 RAT SPAWN 75pts
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Brother Buboe
Stormvermin
Hmm, interesting list.

My thoughts / comments...

?no lord. Do you find that, with the frenzy the extra leadership isn't worth it? and how about the loss of the magic items he can carry?

?only one swarm base. I would suspect that this is too easy to kill and, therefore, isn't gong to work well as a roadblock. Could you scrape up the points for extras? Maybe drop the pcbs down to 6 each and then lose one of the pmsx10 if necessary?

I'm convinced to go out and try the unit of 10PMs following seeing it here. thanks for that.

cheers
Buboe

The Brighton and Clayton Warlords Website


[AKA Sha'a'alaar, The Ancient One, on druchii.net]
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Yep, No lord for me. That is a lot of extra points for what he does. The loss of magic item allowance dosn't really bother me. What would you put on a lord? Also bang on about the leadership. If I take leadership tests the unit is as good as toast.

I know what you mean about the single swarm. As 1 off it won't stop a lot. i have th is idea - deploy 10PM with 1 swarm behind with large PM behind. 10PM charged and beaten by enemy unit. They have to either stay put and get charged by big unit with poss extra support troops or overrun into swarm and still recieve charge. I know how easy it is to wound swarms so this way the max wounds that can be caused is 5. also if you have 2 + swarms they spread out on front of enemy unit possibly preventing my large PM charging. Its just an idea?

I love the 10 PM units. They are soooo versatile.
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Dan_S
Clanrat
SEDGE55
Jan 11 2006, 03:40 AM
Nurglitch? No thanks. :blink: I have played 40 odd games with the bubonic court and I have never used the fat boy yet. I havn't even got the model! :unsure: I just don't like the idea of having a special character worth 1/4 of the whole army cost.

I have used the Bubonic court in 3 turnaments so far. The bristol Brawl (1500pts), Warhammer PLayers Society GT(2000pts) and the Midlands Masacre(1500pts). In the WPSGT Nurglitch was actually allowed. People enjoyed the list as an intresting version of the Skaven background. People did however think the army is harder than it actually is due to the possibility of so many plague spells.

So you cheat then basically.

I mean the bubonic Court list is supposed be balanced with Nurglitch. By replacing him with a Character thus allows yoiu to take 4 characters, and prolly more troops than you would be allowed.

I just think that if a Tournament says no Special chars and allows you to play your Court then fine. Or a friendly game, if your bud says don't worry about Nurglitch then cool. But to just not own the model and not take him because you don't like him.....

Well, i don't really like Rat Spawns and won't take one, can i take an extra special or hero choice instead ?? (Same thing right)

Well anyways to each his own, personally i'm looking forward to using him. The more i look into the possibilities i really think he is worth his points.
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farsight
The Happy Buddist
Dont you think it is a little unfair saying that he cheats :huh:

come on Sedge decides to not take this character which most of the players i have spoke to find shocking for the cost, and add in a hero choice, okay you could use your rat spawn argument if he just added points on but his army is still fair points value and equal to the opponents so whats the problem i ask? :blink:

remember Nurglitcvh needs to killl alot to make up his points so.... well im not going o start another discussion on him again.

Dont mean to cause offence i just thougt you were a bit harsh saying he cheated ^_^

Dan
"Challenge stroung Clan Moulder dead- thing? Accept your challenge i do"
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SEDGE55
Unregistered

Everyone is allowed an opinion, however there are right and wrong ways to expresse an opinion. I will not take offence as this is a friendly discussion.

My gaming group have never really used special characters, mainly due to the majority being tournament players. We like to practice with what were allowed. There is no ban on them, take 'em if you like.

Do you really thing it unbalnces the list not taking him? I thing exactly the opposite, it unbalances the list to have him. Prehaps I should try using him.

The cauldron of a thousand poxes is a inportant part of the background for clan pestilence don't you agree. It is metioned in more than one source. There must be more than 1 of them. So surely they would me more common to be seen on the battlefield than a special character. How could he take part in EVERY battle the bubonic court ever have?

Dan_S have you ever used a cauldron? I am curious.
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