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Which Banner of the plagues?; Plague Monk unit
Topic Started: 4th December 2005 - 04:16 PM (613 Views)
farsight
The Happy Buddist
hi, i have been considering whether or not to give my Plague monks a magic banner and have decided either The banner of burning hatred or the Umbranner (4+ ward from shooting) and am not sure? i know it's up to me but still anyone had any expericance using either of these? as i suppose the first is cheaper in points but i dont know ^_^

Thanks in advance

Dan
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Morkskittar
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What armies do you plan on fighting? If it's an army with a lot of shooting, the UMbranner helps out a whole lot, as Monks have no armour. The Banner of Burning Hatred is unrelaible, and I would hesitate to take it in any Plague Monk unit. I usually go with Umbranner or nothing.

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Underlord Burrows
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The Ever Shiny, Muse and Co Cookie Cutter

i would go with the umbranner it seems incredible cheap for a really good bonus.




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Blood Vixen
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All hail the Age of Skaven
again depends what your fighting against but burning banner + frenzy + aditional hand weps 3 rerollable attacks each on a charge
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'Ttakquick
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can always go with the warbanner, +1 to combat!
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farsight
The Happy Buddist
yeah i may switch in between battles but generally, i will probally just go for the banner of burning hatred, but if i fight heavly shooting armies i can always say they have no save and show the profile, but really they have the umbranner, nice and sneaky ^_^ .

still if it dosent work in the first few games i play i.e. they chagre forward because of failing the banner of hatred then get killed by charger then i will just take the warbanner.

as always much apprecicated,

Dan
"Challenge stroung Clan Moulder dead- thing? Accept your challenge i do"
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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IMO, the Umbranner is the most valuable banner you could give to your monks. Although they lack the armour to fully support their combat, the amount of attacks they can dish out combined with a toughness that rivals many more expensive troops out there, really ensures them to become a major target for enemy shooting. Trust me, once you'll face the DE shooty armies of doom and destruction, you really learn to appreciate this little banner!

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farsight
The Happy Buddist
Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
Dec 5 2005, 03:00 AM
IMO, the Umbranner is the most valuable banner you could give to your monks. Although they lack the armour to fully support their combat, the amount of attacks they can dish out combined with a toughness that rivals many more expensive troops out there, really ensures them to become a major target for enemy shooting. Trust me, once you'll face the DE shooty armies of doom and destruction, you really learn to appreciate this little banner!

Greetz

yeah they probally will be a pin cushion, okay i've decided too give them the umbranner but if i fight an army like chaos or any other force with little or no shooting they will have the banner of burning hatred.

thanks for the advise, much appreciated ^_^

Dan
"Challenge stroung Clan Moulder dead- thing? Accept your challenge i do"
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Apophis
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How many monk units do you plan on having? and how many slave(pussbag) units will you be screening them with?
do you have a BSB for the army?

If you only have a small amount of monk units then yes the umbranner is a good choice. If your not screening them with puss bags then its a better choice.
however if your screening the monks with pussbags then go for the burning hatred banner or war banner.

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Skaskrit Venomclaw
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I made a calculation once, and it showed that the banner of burning hatred doesn't give a greater benefit than the Warbanner, on top of which it makes your unit uncontrollable and only works in the first round of combat. If there's a plague priest in the unit, the effect becomes more powerful though. (especially if the priest is armed with a flail or censer.)

So, I'd go with the Ubranner unless you expect little shooting in which case the good old warbanner is the best and safest choice. Remember, warhammer is a game of manoeuvre. (at least, if you play a Skaven horde) It is won or lost in the movement phase, and anything that gives you a disadvantage in that all important phase must be extremely good indeed to be even worth considering.
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Mutator
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I always save the umbranner for the SV missile-magnets, so if you have them in the same force I'd give it to them instead.

Of course, I also reserve the warbanner for the SVs, if I'm not taking the umbranner.

I tend to like giving the BBH to the monks. Basically because I am not prepared to subject either my SVs or BSB to uncontrolled movement, but the PMs basically suffer from restraint issues anyway... and with a censor-wielding Priest in the unit (why else field PMs?) it becomes nice and killy. Also it is fluffy, and lets you roll lots of dice (twice). Effect-wise it doesnt do much, except for the Priest, of course, but given that all the other good banners are accounted for...

The swarm banner I always reserve for the BSB. It stacks with the warbanner (3 ranks, standard, warbanner, numbers, swarm banner = +7 CR, which on 3+ hth save stormvermin is not to be sniffed at), and the BSB is free to move to big units to ensure the banner has an outnumber bonus to magnify, whereas a unit which suffers casualties sufficient to dictate it will never outnumber anything is usually just carrying a useless 20 points. Of course, if I'm not fielding SVs (or they have the umbranner) then the BSB gets the warbanner instead, still leaving only the BBH for the monks.

Kinda complicated, but thems my reasons :)
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farsight
The Happy Buddist
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Dec 7 2005, 12:32 AM
I always save the umbranner for the SV missile-magnets, so if you have them in the same force I'd give it to them instead.

Of course, I also reserve the warbanner for the SVs, if I'm not taking the umbranner.

I tend to like giving the BBH to the monks. Basically because I am not prepared to subject either my SVs or BSB to uncontrolled movement, but the PMs basically suffer from restraint issues anyway... and with a censor-wielding Priest in the unit (why else field PMs?) it becomes nice and killy. Also it is fluffy, and lets you roll lots of dice (twice). Effect-wise it doesnt do much, except for the Priest, of course, but given that all the other good banners are accounted for...

The swarm banner I always reserve for the BSB. It stacks with the warbanner (3 ranks, standard, warbanner, numbers, swarm banner = +7 CR, which on 3+ hth save stormvermin is not to be sniffed at), and the BSB is free to move to big units to ensure the banner has an outnumber bonus to magnify, whereas a unit which suffers casualties sufficient to dictate it will never outnumber anything is usually just carrying a useless 20 points. Of course, if I'm not fielding SVs (or they have the umbranner) then the BSB gets the warbanner instead, still leaving only the BBH for the monks.

Kinda complicated, but thems my reasons :)

without being rude and sounding like a nube but it's kinda annoying reading all the short terms, probally because i didn't understand what you meant by "SV's" if you could let me know it would be great.

Apophis: i have yet ti write the army list out yet but i plan on having 2-3 large units of monks (25- 30 in numbers each).

Skaskrit Venomclaw: i understand what you mean by the banner of burning hatred not doing much as chances are the re- rolls won't do any extra wounds but i just thought it's a bit more fun than the warbanner, still i may take the warbanner every so often ^_^ .

never really thought about a standard bearer as i havent ever used one, i may get one mind, but can i give him sword of might or battle? just for some protection, failing that he will get a nice shiny 4+ ward save ^_^

thanks for the advise, more will be welcome

Dan
"Challenge stroung Clan Moulder dead- thing? Accept your challenge i do"
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Skaskrit Venomclaw
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A battle standard bearer can either carry up to 50 points of normal magic items just like a normal chieftain, or a magic banner with no point limit. You're not allowed to have both a magic banner and a magic sword, even if the total cost of the items would not exceed 50 points.

In my seer-led army, I like to take a battlestandard bearer with the warpstone amulet and either the sword of might or the bands of power as a backup character. Enemies don't expect a battlestandard bearer fighting in the front rank with 3 strength 8 attacks, and he does a nice job of compensating for the seer's lack of leadership and fighting skills. I advice against the sword of battle, though, as it's complete crap. The sword of might is cheaper and will help more against virtually any foe you'll come across.
"I have a post-Armageddon vision. We and all other large animals are gone. Rodents emerge as the ultimate post-human scavengers. They gnaw their way through New York, London and Tokyo... within 5 million years, a whole range of new species replace the ones we know. Herds of giant grazing rats are stalked by sabre-toothed predatory rats. Given enough time, will a species of intelligent, cultivated rats emerge?"

Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale
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farsight
The Happy Buddist
Skaskrit Venomclaw
Dec 9 2005, 06:18 AM
A battle standard bearer can either carry up to 50 points of normal magic items just like a normal chieftain, or a magic banner with no point limit. You're not allowed to have both a magic banner and a magic sword, even if the total cost of the items would not exceed 50 points.

In my seer-led army, I like to take a battlestandard bearer with the warpstone amulet and either the sword of might or the bands of power as a backup character. Enemies don't expect a battlestandard bearer fighting in the front rank with 3 strength 8 attacks, and he does a nice job of compensating for the seer's lack of leadership and fighting skills. I advice against the sword of battle, though, as it's complete crap. The sword of might is cheaper and will help more against virtually any foe you'll come across.

hmm, didnt you say they can have either a banner or items? or is he just the basic standard carrier where he gives all units within 12 a re-roll to leadership tests?

still thats pretty cool mind ^_^

Dan
"Challenge stroung Clan Moulder dead- thing? Accept your challenge i do"
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Underlord Burrows
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The Ever Shiny, Muse and Co Cookie Cutter

translation of shorterms:
SV= stormvermin
PM= plague monks
BBH= banner of burning hatred
BSB= battle standard bearer

there you go. hope that helps.




Underlord Burrows
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