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Warpvermin
Topic Started: 18th November 2005 - 07:25 PM (493 Views)
Furtivus
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I play in a gaming group with a group of friends, and we all have agreed this unit is nice and balanced, I just thought I'd see what you guys think. I will add I don't use them in tournaments or rank games.

0-1 Warpvermin:

Pts: 15.
M Ws Bs S T W I A Ld
5 5 3 4 4 1 6 1 5

Their leader would of course be the same but with an extra attack. He would be called a warpfang.

Unit size: 10-20
Weapons and Armour: Hand Weapon, shield and heavy armour.

Options:
- Great Weapons (2pts per), Halberds (2pts per) or warp swords (4pts per) (count as a hand weapon in all the conventional ways. Adds +1 str to the profile of all models in the unit. Count as magical attacks.)
- Musician 5pts
- Standard Bearer 10pts
- Warpfang 10pts
- Magic standard worth up to 50pts.

Special:
- Elite Rivalry - May not be in the same army as Stormvermin.
- Warpguard - May be upgraded to warpguard at a cost of 5 pts per model. They are equipped with warparmour (4+ save, as full plate, chaos or gromril), and have +1 attack on their profile. The army general must always join the Warpguard, and cannot leave for any reason unless the unit is destroyed.

Now, I do appreciate they are a fairly powerful unit, but I think they are priced accordingly.
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Underlord Burrows
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The Ever Shiny, Muse and Co Cookie Cutter

just my opinion but if you just make then warp guard to begin with and add the 5pts on to begin with and then as the 2 rules left would be condsidered negative you should give then a decent rule to make up for it. im not sure if the bodyguard rule (unbreakable if character is still alive i think it is) is suitable as they are skaven but they seem disciplined troops only there to serve as the greyseers private army maybe could be the fuff. can the greyseer still be on a screaming bell? and what is a warp blade?



Underlord Burrows
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Furtivus
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Screaming Bells use their normal rules unless specified.

Warpvermin Warp Swords work much like Warp Blades in the Clan Skryre section of the Skaven Army book, except that they don't give them the knowledge of the warp spell, and they're a hand weapon. A large hand weapon, but still a hand weapon.
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General Vorg
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Keeper of the Squeeks and the Temple

Why dont you call them 'Albino Temple Guard'

that would make a lot of sense

squeeks
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Frankensqueek
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I may be worng, but I think they may be a little overpriced. Sure they have a good stat line, but at the end of the day they are Ld5 and they could easily flee. At 15 points base (upto 22 points) I think they are too big a chunk of points to lose.

But like I said, its very likely that i'm wrong ^_^

James
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As for nominations: Frankie, of course, because I love to vote for him and watch him fail :unsure: 


My Army
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SingTheScreams
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Call me Sings

warpguard with great weapons give you s7 troops

...no

and if they're elite why only ld5? instead of 6
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no need to worry for soul, instead starts worshipping STS and slaughtering unbelievers in his holy name.
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Warlord Gnashik
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I gotta agree with Sings on the way over-powered S5 Warpguard. That's as strong as a Rat Ogre! I also second that the Ld for an elite unit would be better represented by Ld 6. The T4 also strikes me as wrong. The only other things in the Skaven army with T4 are Pestilens units, Rat Ogres, and characters. These guys make me think Chaos Warrior Skaven.

I think this unit's concept is a good idea though. (I especially like Vorg's idea of making them the albino council guards.)

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Furtivus
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Quote:
 
Why dont you call them 'Albino Temple Guard'

that would make a lot of sense


No it wouldn't.

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warpguard with great weapons give you s7 troops


No it doesn't, it gives you str 6 troops...


Stormvermin are elite troops, they're leadership 5. These guys aren't over powered because they pay the points cost! Bear in mind that if they're with the general they're going to be Ld 8 at least, due to the general's leadership and rank bonus.

Yes, they are similar to chaos warriors, sort of where the idea came from, but I fail to see how you guys can't see the fluff behind them?!

They're warpstone imbued, fuelled and powered by it. It makes total sense that Skaven would have elite pumped up troops, especially if guarding a Grey Seer.

I could make them unbreakable for 3 pts per?
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General Vorg
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Keeper of the Squeeks and the Temple

lol noooo!!!

no unbreakable for a skaven rank and file unit, even if they are 'warpvermin'. And Albino Temle guardwould make sence. They guard the general.... how doent that make sense?

squeeks
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Warlord Gnashik
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I would have sworn the Warpguard rule stated +1 S when I read it last night. Okay, S4 w/ great weapons I could swallow.

Don't go with unbreakable, try something else. Bodyguard might be too good even for an elite Skaven unit. Stubborn, maybe?

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'Ttakquick
Grey Seer
0-1 is good.

They are strong and are well compensated in the points cost, it's just that they resemble chaos warriors too much (great weapons/4+ armor/+1 to attack).
Maybe you need better fluff to get your desired affect; for example instead of Full plate, they could have tough hides, like boars do, and equip them with heavy armor.

And the warpblade upgrade is too good, no matter how high the point cost is set at. Sort of unbalanced, even for a house rule unit.

But hey, if your friends are down with it, then by all means put them on the battlefield and let us know how well they do...

'Ttakquick. Battle Standard of Clan Mors! Litter-spawn of Lord Queek HeadTaker!
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Warlord Gnashik
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'Ttakquick
Nov 19 2005, 05:53 PM

And the warpblade upgrade is too good, no matter how high the point cost is set at. 

I didn't notice that the warp blades give them +1 Str as well as counting as magical. You realize that that is the equivalent of the Sword of Might which is a 20 pt magic weapon? Actually, the warp blade is even better because you say it also counts as a hand weapon in all conventional means. This gives them a further +1 to their armor save when used with a shield. Under-priced for sure. The +4 would be fine if it only counted as a magical hand weapon.

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Skaskrit Venomclaw
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Ex-Councilrat

I don't think a unit like this will ever be balanced for the Skaven army.

In a Chaos army they wouldn't really be off-key. But one of the design basics of Warhammer is that units are valued differently depending the army they're in, because all armies have their strengths and weaknesses and should keep them.

Just imagine for a second a Chaos army that also has acces to units of 2 point movement 5 slaves and ratling guns! How scary would that be?

Your unit is like that. It gives Skaven a unit on the level of Chaos Warriors, whilst not giving the army any more weaknesses. Even though it's not unbalanced by and of itself, it does remove one of our only weaknesses, and therefore I don't think it's a good idea.
"I have a post-Armageddon vision. We and all other large animals are gone. Rodents emerge as the ultimate post-human scavengers. They gnaw their way through New York, London and Tokyo... within 5 million years, a whole range of new species replace the ones we know. Herds of giant grazing rats are stalked by sabre-toothed predatory rats. Given enough time, will a species of intelligent, cultivated rats emerge?"

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Clanlord Trask
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Quiet, I'm plotting.

I like the idea, and as a themed unit being used in your own campaign or house battles or whatever its totally perfect.

In my opinion, no Skaven unit should ever be stubborn. That is essentially removing the very reason you are playing the skaven in the first place. LD 5 seems ok. I like the idea of a unit that is really powerful, but ready to just bolt for it at the first sign of trouble.

If they were Albino Temple Guard, then all they could guard would be Grey Seers and Council members. At least being Warpvermin they can go with other characters.

One thing, if they are fueled by warpstone, they should be somewhat bloodlusted. They should have to charge any unit within range, unless they pass a LD test. Thats just my thought.
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The Campaigner
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Underlord Burrows
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The Ever Shiny, Muse and Co Cookie Cutter

maybe you need to give it a weakness to do with the warpstone fueled constitution (ring any bells?). maybe the have to stay and feast on enemies rather then pursue or maybe an undead like thing where if you are beaten in combat you take and extra d3 worth of casualties from them just falling over dead because of there unstable nature. i do not know take it or leave it.



Underlord Burrows
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