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| Warp-Zeppelin; The Skaven reach for the skies! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 16th September 2005 - 08:13 AM (1,166 Views) | |
| CaptainClark | 17th September 2005 - 11:46 AM Post #16 |
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Prince of Bretonnia
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The points of this thing are more or less fine..... After all, with it's rediculously large 20 wounds, it would take 144 Bretonnian or Empire Bowmen to bring it down. (144 = 72 hits = 36 wounds = 6 saved by ward, 10 saved by Armour = 20 wounds) So...as a Bretonnian Bowman is 6 points basic.... 6*144 = 864 Points. I can let slide 64 points.... However, about the cannon. No, my arguement has never been that the cannonball turns into superheated plasma...my argument is simpley this: A Zepplin would be full of gas. Much of that gas is carried in metal bottles. Then there is also the reactor you've mentioned, walking gantries and metal ribbing in the main structure anyway. There is acctually a lot of metal in most Zeplins. The cannonball would have at LEAST a 50/50 chance of striking a piece of that metal. Now apart from the obvious damage that a high velocity cannonball would do to said pieces of metal, likely causing catastrophic damage, far more importantly, a cannonball, a large hunk of metal (remember, Empire cannonballs ARE metal) impacting another piece of metal at high speeds generally creates a spark...and that Zeplin is filled with high explosive gas (and a highly unstable reactor)....I believe the word I'm looking for is...BOOM. Oh...and Franky Banjo. That's a MUCH more balanced creation. I like it (only comment is the Leadership 10. Come on, it is Skaven after all ;). Not that Leadership should be much of an issue as it's unbreakable....acctually, that brings up an interesting point. It's long been said that Skaven should *never*, under any circumstances, get "unbreakable" or "stubborn" as rules, as they're not skaveny. However, in this case, it makes sense that it's unbrakeable....interesting paradox.) As I said...I like it! |
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| Horned Shadow | 17th September 2005 - 12:53 PM Post #17 |
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Unregistered
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I really cant understand your saying its cheese and then give it points cost of 800. I was thingking something like 2000 but I cant really refine it because this thing is a bit unique. Who said the gas has to be explosive. Its a fantasy airship in a fantasy game with fantasy rules. And yes the Hindenburg was destroyed by static electricity caused by the metallic paint of the hull whitch detonated the hydrogen. Well, one third of the wounds are critical. So just one ill lucked one and there she dives. They get to fire it nearly every turn not even needing to pivot..Some races get the shot at 3+. Think what chameleon skinks scoutin next to it would do... So lets say you get to shoot it with an HE army not being strictly shooty.. 2 Blocks of 10xArchers and 2xBolt thrower. 20 3+ arrows per turn and 2+ a bit later and 12 s4 bolts at 2+ or were it 3+. First turn 13 hits from archers causing 6 wounds likely 2 being critical armour stops one and wardsave 1 or 2; 8 from bolters causing 5 wounds 1 or 2 being critical, going thru armour and ward saving 1 or 2. SO we have total of 7 wounds caused and up to 3 criticals. I cant see it going to survive many more.. Franky_Banjo: Nice job. Your desing fits better to FB world and mine is better suited for warmaster because of the sheer size. I'd give it MR2. Doomwheel gets it, so would nearly any other warpstone based creation and the Warp-lightning cannon gets stable 4+ ward. And your creation is quad the price. I like it and hope you make it a real model someday =) |
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| Frankensqueek | 17th September 2005 - 01:23 PM Post #18 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Ok, here she is updated. Red denotes changes. HRS Horned Shadow - Skaven Warp-Zeppelin Points: I'm thinking 300-400ish, and takes up 2 rare slots. M WS BS S T W I A LD - - - - 4 5 - - 10 Armour save: 5+ Crew: One Slave pilot, one Warlock engineer, 2 Ratling Gunners. Crew Gear: Slave has no equipment, Warlock Engineer has full Warlock Engineer equipment. Armament: One Ratling gun either side. Special Rules: Chariot Base, Crew, Fly, Ratling guns, Warp Generator, Combat, crash, Large Target, Unbreakable. Chariot base: The Warp-Zeppelin is based on a chariot base. This is where enemy units will charge to. When meassuring all distances except the mounted Ratling gun ranges, meassure from the chariot base. Crew: The members of thre crew cannot be targeted by shooting, magic or combat attacks. The Engineer cannot declare or accept challanges and magic items that effect characters cannot be used on the Engineer. The Engineer cannot buy any magic items. Fly: The Warp-Zeppelin flys as described in the Warhammer rule book, and counts as landing afer each move. However, due to it's bulk, it can only move 12 inches and may only turn a total of 90 degrees per turn. Ratling Guns: There is one ratling gun placed on each side of the Warp-Zeppelin. Each has a 180 degree arc, but can still fire 360 degrees if the missfire and fire in a random direction. Meassure the range from the actual ratling guns, not the edge of the chariot base. Warp Generator: The warp generator gives the Warp-Zeppelin a 4+ ward save against attacks (ranged or in combat) of strength 4 or less. Against strength 5 or more (ranged or in combat), the ward save is reduced to 5+. The Warp generator also confers magic resistance(2). Combat: The Warp-Zeppelin can never declare a charge, and may never choose to flee as a charge reaction. In combat the Warp-Zeppelin and it's crew may never fight, but in the shooting and magic phases, the warlock engineer and Ratling gunners may still fire their weapons and cast magic, even into their own combat. Crash: If the Warp-Zeppelin gets destroyed, all the crew die. If the Warp-Zeppelin gets destroyed in combat, every model in the combat, friend or foe takes a single S2 hit, with no Look out Sir Rolls. If the Warp-Zeppelin is destroyed out of combat, such as from enemy fire or their own ratling guns destroying them due to a missfie, then place the large template under the Warp-Zeppelin. Every model caught totally or partially under the template take a single S2 hit. An area the size of a large template directly below where the Warp-Zeppelin was now counts as impassable terrain due to the flaming reckage. Large Target: The Warp-Zeppelin is the size of an Empire Battleship and counts as a large target. Unbreakable: The Warp-Zeppelin is unbreakable. What do you think? FB |
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| CaptainClark | 17th September 2005 - 01:24 PM Post #19 |
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Prince of Bretonnia
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True...but, in fairness...it is Skaven...and when is Skaven stuff *not* explosive? (Hell, Skaven cereals are probably explosive ;)). Anyway...Hydrogen or Helium would be...and warpstone gas CERTAINLY is. As those are the three most likely candidates, it's fair to say it's explosive (oddly, most lighter then air gasses are explosive....). This is turning into a p***-ing contest now. So this will be my last reply on the subject. Simpley put, if you didn't want input, were going to ignore everything everyone said, and have decided to totally ignore the style/flavour of the race or everything that's gone before about them (or other stuff in the Warhammer world for that matter), then it really is pointless me taking the time to write a reply. |
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| scrivener | 17th September 2005 - 01:24 PM Post #20 |
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*toot*
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Ok, you had a point, so I sat down and read through everything. If it's an outlandish, OTT machine you're going for, then yes, some of the more complex rules like 'fragile' and 'technical marvel' are fluffy and could be some fun to use, if cleaned up a little. i'll try to look at this from a thematic view as well as game balance one. ![]() The few issues i have are: The deathglobes. up to 6 small templates scattering 2d6 is a little too much. Plus you're proposing unleashing numerous bags of a 20 pt hero magic weapon, which doesn't work in game balance nor fluffy themes. I'd suggest using either just one large template or to use poisoned wind globes instead (current rules). I think the ratling guns don't really need a new misfire table. Misfires on triples? tut-tut, you're taking out alot of the risks of using ratlings. Warplock cannons? You don't need warplock cannons, it's getting overpowered. Give the guns 45 arc sight from the sides, it's more in-game accurate. There's no explanation how it manages to halve a charge by fliers. Fliers should charge normally. Technical marvel is broken, honestly. A leadership test on Ld 9. And most of those results don't bother the zeppelin much: speed changes, slaves getting hit, on 4-5 you still get to drop a deathglobe yaddayadda.. even on snake-eyes the zeppelin still gets to do majormajor damage when it crashes. Same with the fragile rule, except fragile does 2x or 3x the wounds yes, but when you're walking in with 20 wounds (20 wounds!?!?!?! ) that's barely an itch. You basically need to fail a test on Ld 9 then roll snake-eyes to destroy that thing, and even then it can wipe out a large chunk of an enemy doing so.The image of frenzied giant rats jumping off the failing ship is a fluffy one, and quite amusing, but what exactly is the purpose behind this again? As if the deathglobes weren't enough, the zeppelin now needs to toss flying rats at its poor, poor opponents. :lol: I don't find it credible that a warp-generator that's supposed to propel the thing manages to give magic resistance 3 and 5+ward save to an airborne contraption of wood. Overall, for a wooden contraption suspended from a giant bag of air that's been built by skaven and is apparently 'fragile', that thing's pretty tough. And when it crashes the damage it does is amazing (but perfectly understandable, getting hit on the head by a falling ship is quite painful). You could literally fly it over a shooty army and drop the damn thing on them. And against a mortal khorne army its unstoppable: it can't be hit and has that armoursave-negating arsenal. If you want to make the fluffiness more accurate, randomize shots at it between the ship and the balloon thingy. Give the ship 8 wounds and the balloon 3. That makes more sense, since the balloon's the most fragile part, and a couple shots should puncture it. If the balloon loses all its wounds the zeppelin crashes, which is no big loss since it can take out a large chunk of the opponent even by doing that. IMHO, a lot of the work here seems designed to take out the negatives and souping up the good. That thing is a shooty army all of its own, it does damage even on its misfires. It most importantly isn't really as self-destructive as it lets itself to be, it has a decent ward save, would be quite seldom charged, and has 20 wouunds!!?! You did argue that it's supposed to be thematic and for fun, but sorry, that thing is not very thematic and about as fun as an SAD. There was pretty much no point of me going into all that detail since it just addresses what both capt clark and foeslayer have been saying *shrugs* but you did put this up on a public forum for open discussion, so that's what i'm going. If you're going to listen to anything in this post before getting defensive yet again, let it be this: take a look at franky's suggested rules. They're quite fluffy, more toned down, but probably not as uber-flying-machine-of-doom. You could probably find a place in between both sets of rules.Good luck with your project, and i hope for your friends' sakes that they don't play mortal khorne. |
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| General Vorg | 17th September 2005 - 01:45 PM Post #21 |
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Keeper of the Squeeks and the Temple
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this thing is.... interesting.... i agree with franky here, it took a lot of work 2 do this, so go eay on him. I wasnt able 2 read all the rules because i kinda fell asleep, but if you tone it done a bit, it will be quitefair squeeks |
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| Thrask Vilepaw | 19th September 2005 - 06:28 AM Post #22 |
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The Grim Squeaker
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Hey Giantrat your madness is being put into action, i dont mind this looks ok. I would add teh flammable gas problem when being attacked by guns and such. Aka if wounded with a Gun roll a die, one a roll of 1 it explodes :P. I seem to remember in fluff that i killed all the crew and caused it to crach into the walls of middenheim
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Official master of parades by Rattsu BEWARE THE GRIM SQUEAKER ![]() ![]()
8th member of the day 24 hour painting challenge : 30 clanrats in 10.5 hours SUCCESS | |
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| thecoldwarrior | 19th September 2005 - 03:06 PM Post #23 |
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Warlord
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I like the idea and of course I am more interested in biulding this airborn rat contraption than how it works atm, but i do have a few comments. I am not terible familure with the rules as of yet and in some cases not sure if I understand them at all, but one of these rules (and on of my favs) is the rattling gun. Don't remember who said it , but they are right if you make it missfire on trips then it would be too easy. You could go on firing for a while and hardly have to worry about a missfire. As for the zeplin it's self, the problem is the enemy will want to take it down and fast (would'nt you?). Yes the shell of a zeplin has a lot of metal, but it is also very thin. Not sure if an arrow would penatrate it ,but a cannonball might not even stop as it went through the other side!!! My suggestion to you is this, you want to deture the enemy from shooting it down.....fill it with warpstone gas. This way you can attack all day long without worry. If they want to shoot it down then fine, but they will have to deal with a deadly windfall!!! This is a really cool idea though and I may attemp to make one for the fun of it. Have you made one? If not what are your plans if any? |
| three rats walk into a bar........oh you've heard this one | |
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| Frankensqueek | 19th September 2005 - 07:06 PM Post #24 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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I'm planning on building one, but a smaller one to represent the rules I wrote. Probably about 40-50cm long. The balloon bit will be polystyrine with a balsawood cockpit. 2 ratling guns, one slave and one engineer later, I've got myself a warp-zepplin. FB |
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| Mutator | 29th June 2006 - 04:18 AM Post #25 |
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Retired fat dude
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My version: basically a floating platform for poison wind globadiers ![]()
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| Mostly harmless | |
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) that's barely an itch. You basically need to fail a test on Ld 9 then roll snake-eyes to destroy that thing, and even then it can wipe out a large chunk of an enemy doing so.
If you're going to listen to anything in this post before getting defensive yet again, let it be this: take a look at franky's suggested rules. They're quite fluffy, more toned down, but probably not as uber-flying-machine-of-doom. You could probably find a place in between both sets of rules.




