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Warp-Zeppelin; The Skaven reach for the skies!
Topic Started: 16th September 2005 - 08:13 AM (1,165 Views)
Horned Shadow
Unregistered

The Skaven Warp-Zeppelin

800 points. The Warp-Zeppelin counts as three rare choises.
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0  -    3   - 3 20 3 -  9


Armour save: 6+

Crew: 3 Enthusiastic Warlock Engineers, 20 unlucky slaves and a swarm of giant rats.

Crew gear: Warlock Engineers: HW, brace of warplock-pistols, Slaves: Hw, Giant rats: mean temper and sharp teeth.

Armament: Two Ratling gun mounts and loads of death globes.

May upgrade ratling gun mounts to warplock-cannon batteries for 100points.

Special Rules:
Float (10"), Terror, Fly High, Fragile, The Warp-generator, Loads of Globes, Ratling Gun Mounts, Warplock-Cannon Batteries, Large Target, Passive, Us 8, Crash, Technical Marvel, The Slaves.

Float: The Warp-Zeppelin steadily floats in the air. It follows the rules for flyers exept that its maximum move is 10" rather than 20".

Terror: The Warp-Zeppelin fills the sky and rains death upon its enemies. Only a fool would not run against such a hellish construct. The Warp-Zeppelin causes terror.

Fly High: Due to the fragility of the construct the Warp-Zeppelin flies high over the battlefield, it lands down only to crash or reload its terrible cargo. The Warp-Zeppelin can be targeted normally with normal or magical missiles. Only flying units can charge the Warp-Zeppelin and only with the half of their charge range.

Fragile: The Zeppelin construct doesnt come without problems. If the gas chamber is critically breached the zeppelin will fall. Any roll of 6 to wound means that the Warp-Zeppelin is suffers a critical hit. Roll 2s6 on the following list.

12 Odd coincidence. Nothing is damaged, but a lone Death Globe falls out of the Warp-Zeppelin.
10-11 Major damage. The Warp-Zeppelin suffers triple wounds
8-9 Cockpit hit. One of the Engineers is hit. Roll to wound as normal. The engineers get 4+ armour save due their reinforced cockpits. If all of the engineers die the Warp-Zeppelin crashes.
5-7 The hit critically damages the structure. Double wounds.
3-4 Direct hit to the working slaves. Weapons strenght -2 determines how many slaves died to the hit.
2 Warp-Generator Detonates. The Warp-Zeppelin not only crashes but hurls also 4d3 Death Globes at its detonation point. Scatter them 4d6 from the center of the Warp-Zeppelin. Effective only if the Warp-Zeppelin is in quater of its original wounds.

The Warp-Generator: The Warp-Generator provides all the energy the ship needs and more. The Warp-Zeppelin counts as having magic resistance 3 due to the random bursts of energy. The ship also gets a 5+ ward save. Inaddition any hits that cause multible wounds only cause d2 wounds to the Warp-Zeppelin.

Loads of Globes: At the begining of each shooting phase the Warp-Zeppelin can open its cargo holds and drop part of its terrible cargo, the Death Globes. Death Globes follow the rules given in the Skaven armybook with the following exeptions. The Warp-Zeppelin may drop 2d3 globes in each of its shooting phases. These scatter 2d6" from the center of the ship. Any scattering result of "hit" scatters only d6". Note that the Warp-Zeppelin can drop Death Globes even if engaged in combat.

Ratling Gun Mounts: The Ship is armed with twin Ratling guns mounted on the sides of the Warp-Zeppelin. These follow the rules presented in the Skaven armybook with the following exeption; the guns misfires at triples instead of doubles and the range of the weapon is increased to 20" due to heavyer construction. The Ratling Gun has a new misfire table.

triple 6 the gun fires with maximum torque. d6 Additional hits.
5 Misfeeding occurred. Only half of the hits are shot.
4 Ammobelt jammed. All shots are wasted.
2-3 Torque gear breaks. All shots are wasted and the battery is silent for the duration of the next shooting phase. On 4+ a slave suffers a wound due to the high velocity gear running rampant.
1 the mount detonates. The Warp-Zeppelin suffers 3d3 s4 hits. The slaves also suffer d6 hits distributed like shooting. The Warp-Zeppelin can use its ward save agains wounds caused in this manner.

Note that the Warp-Zeppelin can fire its mounts even if engaged in combat, thought they can be fired only once per turn. If the mount is manned by half or less of the crew, the mount will misfire on doubles instead of triples.

Warplock-Cannon Batteries: The Ship can be armed with two slave operated multibarreled warplock-cannon batteries. Their high failure rate is compensated by the amount of barrels. These follow the rules for jezzails presented in the Skaven armybook exept that the amount of shots is higher. Both batteries fire can fire up to 4d3 shots each turn. Player can decide if he wishes to fire D3, 2d3, 3d3 or 4d3 shots per battery. For each roll of 1 to hit roll a d6 in the following chart. ".

6 the shot is fired with strenght 7 instead of 6 and hits automaticly.
5 the shot is a dud.
4 all shots are wasted.
2-3 all shots are wasted and the battery is silent for the duration of the next shooting phase.
1 the battery detonates. The Warp-Zeppelin suffers 3d3 s6 hits. The Warp-Zeppelin can use its ward save agains wounds caused in this manner.

Note that the Warp-Zeppelin can fire its batteries even if engaged in combat, thought they can be fired only once per turn.

Large target: The Warp-Zeppelin is huge airship blocking the sun over the battlefield. But because it flies so high it only counts as large target.

Passive: Warp Zeppelin cannot charge nor pursue. During combat the ship just floats and is hit on 2+. The ship may only stand and shoot or sit..err float thight. Thought it doesnt fight back either of its batteries or mounts can open fire to the attacker. The warlocks can also fire their warplock pistols. All attacks from the ship are resolved with a -1 hit modifier. The ship is also unbreakable.

Crash: If the Warp-Zeppelin loses its wounds it crashes with a roar, thunder and lightnings. Roll 3d6 and a scatter dice. All models under the falling ship will suffer a s5 hit which causes d3 wounds with no armoursave. Affected area is determined by a roll of 4d2". Each of the crew has to make a thoughness test to survive. Finally 3d6 frenzied giant rats leap out of the wreck. These units are scattered among the ruins 2d6" away from them. They count as destroyed for points purposes.

Technical Marvel: So odd is this device even to the engineers, that there is a chance that something goes terribly wrong...At the beginning of every Skaven turn the Warp-Zeppelin must make a leadershiptest. If passed the Engineer sees the alarming gauge and understands its meaning before its too late. If not roll 2d6 on the following chart. If the Warp-Zeppelin was hit by a succesfull fire attack last turn, then the LD-test is made with -1 modifier as the rats start to panic.

12 By some odd chainreaction the velocity of the Warp-Zeppelin is increased to 15" for this turn.
10-11 Gush of steam burns the crew. D6 s2 hits on the slaves.
9 An engineer suffers an accident. D3 s2 hits.
8 One of the Jezzail Batteries or Ratling gun mounts suffers an malfunction. It may not fire this turn.
6-7 The Warp-Zeppelin suddenly stalls a bit. Velocity lovered to 5" temporarily.
4-5 One of the Death Globes falls from the ship.
3 Gas contamination. The whole crew suffers a wound on a roll of 4+ exept for the engineers who have globadier suits and suffer a wound on 5+. Giant rats are unaffected for gaming purposes.
2 Fire in the rear, gas in the bomb bay, giant rats in frenzy and losing altitude! The engineers have lost control over the Warp-Zeppelin. It scatters 6d6" and explodes with a force of an comet. All models under it (5d2" instead of 4d2")suffer a s6 hit which causes d3 wounds ignoring armoursaves. D6 Death Globes sprout out from whreck by the force of the blast. Scatter each of them 6d6". The crew has no chances for survival and are slain instantly.

The Slaves: The numerous dangerous devices are operated by slaves in amids the hull of the Warp-Zeppelin. They risk their lifes in carrying the Death Globes ja reloading the unstable Warplock-Cannons or Ratling Guns and moving the huge propulsion controls. There are four critical devices witch need the presense of the slaves. The bomb bay witch drop the Death Globes, both Warplock-Cannons or Ratling gun mounts and the propulsion system. A minimum of four slaves is required in each station to maintain full capacity. Propulsion system with only 3 slaves works 3/4 capacity and the Warp-Zeppelins movement is lowered to 7.5". In Warplock-Cannon Batteries the maximum number of d3:s available is the same as the number of slaves present. Four slaves grant 4d3, three 3d3 ect. The Bomb Bay deliveres one globe less for each missing slave to a minumum of 1. Ratling gun mount with half or less crew will misfire on doubles instead of triples. Station with no slaves present is obiously inoperative.

- - - - -

The fluff is yours to create me being a bit bad writer. Sorry about the bad language, english is my third language. Hope you enjoy =)
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CaptainClark
Prince of Bretonnia
Now I normally keep quiet on the Skaven Houserules section...as 1.) It's none of my business, I'm not a Skaven...and 2.) I really feel that I have little right to comment with some of the abominations that My Gaming group have come up with. That said...this must be said...


You are kidding right??? :blink: :huh: :blink:
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Mik says:
christ.. you ALONE could have held us off Middenheap in the SoC
Mik says:
and you CAN quote that
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Horned Shadow
Unregistered

Please be more specific. It's for 3K+ points games so no army would be unable to take it down unless consisting of pure non-shooty non-magic non-flying units..If you consider the amount of rules disturbing then maybe you should still keep away from houserules.

And it is purely for amusement of both players. And the idea is (IMO) fun combining most succesfull skaven inventions. Besides there is a tank awailable to empire so being out of the technological tree of warhammer world is a rather injustified argument too.

But the actual points cost for this is a bit tricky question. I have settled to this because the high failure rate and the possible disaster following.. =P
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Khilkhret Foe-slayer
He Who Needs To Stick Around For Once
Returning for one breif moment to smite this broken, broken abomination:

The fragile rule isn't nearly devastating enough to befit a Skaven device, nor to counteract this things /ridiculous/ power. Here's how I'd have it read.

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Fragile: The Zeppelin construct doesnt come without problems. If the gas chamber is critically breached the zeppelin will fall. Any roll of 6 to wound means that the Warp-Zeppelin is suffers a critical hit. Roll 2s6 on the following list.
12 Odd coincidence. Nothing is damaged, but a lone Death Globe falls out of the Warp-Zeppelin.
10-11: Gas Chamber Breach.  the Warp-Zepplin must roll a D6 immediatly, and once per turn: on a 4 or less on the first roll, the zepplin will crash and burn.  The difficulty to survive for all the further rolls is a 6.  It suffers quadruple wounds in addition to this.
8-9 Major damage. The Warp-Zeppelin multiplies the wounds it is dealt by D6, and must roll a 4 or higher on a D6 to avoid crashing.
8-9 Cockpit hit. One of the Engineers is hit. Roll to wound as normal. The engineers get 5+ armor save due their reinforced cockpits, and the ship's ward save. If all of the engineers die the Warp-Zeppelin crashes.
6-7 Direct hit to the working slaves.  Roll a number of D6 equal to half the strength of the weapon that hit rounding up: The total number is the number of slaves that are hit, with no armor save: the ship's ward save does apply.  If all of the slaves die, the Warp-Zeppelin crashes
4-5 The hit critically damages the structure. Multiply all wounds dealt by D3.
2-3 Warp-Generator Detonates. The Warp-Zeppelin not only crashes but hurls also 2d3 Death Globes at its detonation point. Scatter them D6 from the center of the Warp-Zeppelin. Effective only if the Warp-Zeppelin has at least one fourth it's original wounds remaining when this is rolled: otherwise it just crashes.


The Warp-Generator rule is crazy powerful. Pick one: the magic resistance, the damage reduction, or the ward save. Maybe upgrade it's ward save to +4 vs magic, but no way should it encompas all three. Hell, there's no way it should have the damage reduction at all. The way I'd write it:

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The Warp-Generator: The Warp-Generator provides all the energy the ship needs and more. The Warp-Zeppelin counts as having a 5+ ward save, which is upgraded to a 4+ vs spells and magic.


Loads of Globes: Quite simply, this rule is just horrendous. No. Bad! BAD! *smacks horned shadow with a rolled up newspaper*

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Loads of Globes: At the begining of  each shooting phase the Warp-Zeppelin can open its cargo holds and drop part of its terrible cargo, the Death Globes. Death Globes follow the rules given in the Skaven armybook with the following exeptions: They use the large template, and scatter D6 inches from the zepplin: on a roll of a 1, the clumsy handlers drop the globes /inside/ the hold.  Every crewmember is hit on a 4+, and will take a wound on a 4+ with no armor saves: the ship's 4+ ward save against magical attacks /does/ apply.  Note that the Warp-Zeppelin cannot drop Death Globes if it is engaged in combat.


Ratling Gun Mounts: Have them be one to a side, and only be able to fire in 45 degree arcs, as well as follow the normal misfire rules. If they get the 'spin around randomly' misfire, any shot that is outside of their arc should hit the ship: once again, it's 4+ ward against magic applies.

Warplock-Cannon Batteries: BADBADBAD! *whaps with newspaper some more* This is Cheeze, and not in any good way! If you want jezzails, take jezzails! I'd drop this rule entirely, and have it upgrade to Warp Fire throwers instead. Add a D6 to their range due to their height: a roll of a 1 on that D6 hits the Zepplin, with the 4+ vs magic ward save allowed.

Fly High: I'd drop this rule, it's too cheap. Just get rid of it.

Crash: Horrible. Just horrible. It's far more profitable to crash it than it is to use it in the air. Here's how I'd do it.

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Crash: The Zepplin is not flawless, even by skaven standards: it goes boom quite a lot.  When the Zepplin crashes, everything under it, represented by a large template, is practically guaranteed to die: They take D3 S5 hits, as well as D3 hits that will deal a wound on a 4+ with no armor saves allowed.  Every unit within 2D6 inches of the center of the large template takes D3 S4 hits from shrapnel.  The large template under the crash site becomes impassable terrain.


Technical Marvel: This rule makes things too complicated. Have it make an LD test or suffer a Critical Hit at Strength (2 per 1 the LD test was failed by) instead.

Slaves: Simplify this rule to something like this:

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Slaves: For every 4 slaves killed, disable one feature.  First things to go are the globe-dropping slaves, so when 4 slaves die, no more globes.  The next to go are the weapons-team slaves: four more die and one weapons team is disabled (which one is picked by the opponent), and four more after that disables both.  if 16 or more rats die, total, then the ship is at half movement, and when twnenty die, it crashes.



Gah... I return!


Mutate:
I'm not even going to /think/ about that statline. Change it to something reasonable. NOW.

Mutate 2: Things I didn't notice and am too tired to rant about:
Passive
Guess who's back?
...Yes, back again. This time to stay.
Jackety
 
You know what I just realized?  I wanna see Bush and Lincoln lightsaber-fight.
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CaptainClark
Prince of Bretonnia
You want me to be more specific? Alright then...but you may not like what I have to say...

1. Purely fluffwise...it's not out of the Warhammer Tech possabilities. The Dwarves acctually have 1 Zepplin/Airship...after 2 failures. Now...I'll be the first to acknowledge that the skaven are ingenious inventors and tinkerers. BUT...would they invent something like this on their own? No Probably not. Lets face facts here...as much as skaven do invent and tinker, they generally are *not* the most advanced race in Warhammer. Both the Empire and the Dwarves (and ignoring the Chaos Dwarves, who are the undisputed masters, but will never get an army book...) can challenge them for that title. Infact, normally the Empire or the Dwarves will invent something before a Skaven version shows up. So, I hear you cry "But the Dwarves have invented one! So surely the Skaven could too now!". Well...maybe...but it is extremly improbable. Remember...only one Dwarf engineer knows the secrets of constructing a Zepplin...and, more imporantly...*IF* the Skaven acctually invented their own things...we'd see Steam Tanks and Gyrocoptors in Skaven armies and more common usage of improved handguns. We don't. Why? Because Skaven are much more adept at scavanging, modifying, repairing and "improving". When I see things like this show up...it makes me think "Oh look, the Skaven have seen something someone else has, either in rules or in fluff and have said 'oh, we better/should have one of those too!'" which simpley smacks of cheese. Still....this is PURELY a fluff reason and can easily be overcome, having no bearing what so ever on the rules.

Ok...onto rules deconstruction and decimation....

2. 20 Wounds??? 20 Wounds?????? So, in an average battle the enemy has to cause 4-5 wounds a TURN??? And they still have to deal with the rest of your army??? Even a DRAGON doesn't have 20 wounds....a zepplin certainly shouldn't (12..at MAX, and even that I feel is generous).

3. Terror - *maybe*...but then again...maybe not. It's certainly awe inspiring...but terrifying is very subjective. As Gyrocoptors and such don't cause Fear, it's hard to justify this causing Terror (Ok, I admit, the Steam Tank causes Terror....but then, considering the cries of FOUL rising from everyone except the Empire players, I think we can safely say that 75%+ of Warhammer gamers feel the Steam Tank is just wrong/broken).

4. Fly High - Ok...I understand the fluff behind this. But Game balance Wise, it IS broken. First of all...even Gyrocoptors "land" between moves and can be engaged in Hand to hand. Creatures that can fly *should* be able to remain airborne...BUT, for simplicity and game balance reasons they're forced to land between moves. So, you negate it being able to be engaged in hand to hand combat (or hit by most trajectory weapons acttually...fortunately you didn't mention that in the rules). But to make it even MORE broken and invunerable, flying troops only get *half* their charge range??? Why??? It's slower then they are, and realisticly, doesn't fly any higher. (If it did, missile weapons would be penaltied...or just be unable to hit it, like 5th edition fly high rules). Now...every army *should* have a chance of bringing something in another army down somehow. A Pure Khornate Mortal army has NO chance to bring that thing down. No magic, no shooting, no flying. Opps...800Vp they will never touch unless you mess up your Leadership rolls (and no army should ever be reliant on their opponents rolls). They're the only army that has nothing that can bring it down. But, there are PLENTY of armies that have very few things and VERY LITTLE chance of bringing it down...you've simpley made it near invunerable with that rule (and wait untill I tear into another rule that I feel is broken because it makes it too powerful).

5. Fragile - Ok, this is a decent drawback...EXCEPT...you have 1 result that is beneficial. And one result, which is reliant on it being below a certain wound level (no critical table results ever should be reliant on such a thing) and that, while the machine is destroyed, can and will most likely reek havoc on the enemy.

6. The Warp Generator - Magic Resistance 3 and 5+ Ward? Ok...that I can live with (MR2 would be fairer, but for the slots and points investment, MR3 IS fair). However...multiple wound attacks only do D2 wounds?????? Ok, you are just trying to make it invunerable here. A cannon only causes D2 wounds??? Give me a break. That is simpley Cheese. Not only do you make it EXTREMELY hard to engage...you now make it virtually impossible to bring down with the few things (that many armies don't have I should add) that stand a decent chance. In the case of that Khornate Mortal Army....lets assume they took a Hellcannon....one thing they'd have that could acctually hurt it....opps, d2 wound a turn at BEST. Max in a 6 turn battle....12. Sorry, can't bring it down (as everything else is reliant on your critical hit table).

7. The Rattling Guns - Already powerful weapons (so powerful infact that even Gav Thorpe says they need updating)...you take away one of their weaknesses, improving upon it, making them more powerful...and then give them one of the most benign misfire tables I have EVER seen. A Good result...2 results most people wouldn't care about..a result that is only mildly detrimental...and then finally a bad result. Yes...we'll ignore the trademark "Skaven weapons are unreliable and prone to explode" that is a hallmark of the Skaven army and give you THIS...the ubermech gun.

8. Upgrade to Warplock-cannon Batteries - Aagin...these guns are too powerful. Multiple shot jezzails? (Ok, I understand they have to be better then teh rattling cannons, but still!) And a misfire table that again gives a good result, 3 worthless results this time...and a bad result.

9. Large Traget - Well, I would hope so....not that there's anything bigger then a large target in the rules anyway, so the talk about it flying so high to as only count as a large target is unnecassary.

10. Passive - Well, I can understand it being unbreakable...and it does not Charge or Pursue? Well, I would hope not...as it can only be engaged by flying units! Ohhh, big disadvantage. I think, if it losses combat, you should be looking at it either being destroyed, or suffering an automatic critical (although, to fit into Skaveny feel...a critical for each point it lost combat by would be better.)

11. Crash - You say it comes down with the force of a comet. Ironically, there is a spell that has EXACTLY that effect. Your effect, is somewhat more powerful. S5 1 wound and -2 Armour save would acctually be fairer. The distance also needs some work. But wait! It doesn't end there! The crew survive on successful Toughness tests??? If it was so high, I doubt they would somehow. More then that...3d6 Frenzied Giant Rats also survive automatically??? So, your opponent destroys it...and then has to deal with 3d6 Frenzied Giant Rats? Yeah, see, personally, I think that's broken. It's the equivilent of saying "You've wiped out my Bretonnian Knights....but 2d6 of their horses have survivied and continue to attack you". I think you should drop the giant rats.

12. Technical Marvel - Well, it's nice to see a flaw in the device. However, no enemy should have to be so reliant on you rolling badly to bring this bohemoth down. More then that, you give it 2 good results and 1 result very few people would ever care about. And then theres the instant death result. Again, you say with the force of a comet but make it significantly more powerful (it shouldn't be anymore powerful then the previous one!), and then d6 deathglobe attacks??? Ok...this is very random and could cause havok on either or both armies. I do however get the impression it is FAR more likely to be detrimental to your opponents army. SO basicly...not only is deadly in life...it's just as deadly when it dies....

13. Death Globes - You've given it infinate 20 point magic items as a standard armament??? And it drops 2d3 per turn. Poison wind globes I could understand, though they'd be less useful. But Death Globes?

14. Leadership 9 - Leadership 9??? A skaven device with a basic leadership of 9? Since when do ANY Skaven have leadership 9??

15. Dice Useage - The most common dice used in Warhammer are D6 or multiples there of. Occassionally, they'll use D3 for D3 Wound weapons. D2's are litterally NEVER used. Yet this thing makes massive use of D3's and D2's, often with a total maximum that could be achieved with rolling a certain number of D6's. Simpley put...it shouldn't. Stick to simplicity and use D6's. Infact, the only reason I can see for it using D2's and D3's, is to achieve the same potential maximum, but a much higher minimum and better average. To skewer the rolls in favour of the Skaven player and cause more damge to the enemy...

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but hurls also 4d3 Death Globes


So...4-12...with a 8 average, whereas, 2d6, a much more common Warhammer dice useage, would yield 2-12 with a 7 average.

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multible wounds only cause d2 wounds


Why Reduce multiple wound weapons except to make it invunerable??? And why D2's???

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2d3 globes in each of its shooting phases.


so...2-6 with an average of 4. Compare to the 1-6 with a 3.5 average that a D6 would give. Again, GW would much more likely use a D6. (Acctually, if it were poison wind globes, I'd say this is a time I'd acctually up it to 2d6. But death globes are far too powerful.)

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3d3 s4 hits


Again with the D3's!!! ok...3-9 with a 6 average. And this is a detrimental roll. But personally, as it's caused by Rattling guns...I'd make it 2d6, or even 3d6.


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Both batteries fire can fire up to 4d3 shots each turn. Player can decide if he wishes to fire D3, 2d3, 3d3 or 4d3 shots per battery
AND
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3d3 s6 hits.


Arhg...stop with the D3's already.

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area is determined by a roll of 4d2


2d6 would be better....although the best thing you could do is just use the large blast marker!

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D3 s2 hits.


I'd make it D6. Same result as for the slaves, just on an engineer instead.


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(5d2" instead of 4d2")


Arhhhg. Stop the D2's. Again, use 2d6 or even 3d6 (though that would be FAR too large), or the large template!

AND FINALLY...

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movement is lowered to 7.5".


Never ever ever ever ever use half inches in Warhammer. Everything else in the game uses full inches. Don't start a precedent by using half inches (especially as GW range rulers don't acctually mark or meassure them). A far more fluffy result would be that the Zeplin losses 2" of it's movement for each slave missing (because then, when it has 0 slaves at the engine, it would have a movement of 0).


There....there are my problems with it. Just some 15 or 16 of them...some of them fairly MAJOR. I do have to ask if you playtested this against an opponent, asked any other (non-skaven) players for input or ideas or even put yourself in your opponents shoes when designing it, because...I'm part of a fairly tolerant gaming group (as you may have gathered from my first post, some of the things we've created are truely monstrous), and yet, I can tell you, this would not get past them, and it almost gave me a heart attack upon seeing it. To produce such an extreme reaction from myself (or my gaming group), is usually an indication that something is up. (after all...I've seen plenty of things in the house rule section that I don't agree with or that I think could do with changing to be more balanced and fair, yet I never comment as I feel I don't have a right to...but to design something that acctually provokes me to comment. Well, then lets say something must be seriously wrong. Just ask sn'keep if you really want to know how much I complain about things ;) ...)
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Mik says:
christ.. you ALONE could have held us off Middenheap in the SoC
Mik says:
and you CAN quote that
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s'nkeep
Member Avatar
Ajax = warpstone juice

*snicker* I dont have much to say so this is kinda spamie... but did you know vilepaw and other council rats used a zeppelin during the storm of skaven?
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Frankensqueek
Doomwheel Driver
I think its a brilliant idea, and you have certainly put a hell of a lot of work into making the rules. Even if some of the rules are cheezy or broken, a lot of thought has gone into it making it very fluffy in my opinion.

I won't go into the rules because to be honest, I'm not the one to ask, I don't know much in that category.

But well done mate, very well done.

You know, this would make a FANTASTIC modelling project.

*steals idea*

FB
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Rusty
 
As for nominations: Frankie, of course, because I love to vote for him and watch him fail :unsure: 


My Army
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Horned Shadow
Unregistered

Ah, really good arguments =) I know the rules are partially broken, that is why I wrote it here to inspire flaming..eh..I mean conversation.

I say again it takes tree ( 3 ) rare choises so it is for bigger games and as I mentioned the prize need maybe a little honing =P Seriously I was thinking of 2000 points but then again Chaos Mammoth is 800 and is quite...something.

To the rules then..

The ship has only T3 so few volleys of arrows (with a very decent chance of causing multible criticals) can take it down. That is why it has such a huge amount of them. The armoursave is 6+ and sofort quite many of them punch through, but a third are stopped to wardsave.

Please note the rule Slaves. With too little of them left the ship has to leave some of its functions. These functions are all connected to this rule so changing some of the rules would require a whole redesing.

The Zeppelin is huge, im talking Hindenburg sized. That as a guidline, all of the 4d3:s and 2D6:s are brought to the picture and that is why it's causing terror and is a large target and can only be attackhed in aerial combat. This is where the prize rizes up again.

With D2:s and D3:s the minimum score is higher than with d6 and in this case 2d6 would be too inaccure or too effective.

Specifics..

Khilkhret Foe-slayer:

With your fragile rules it would take a single volley from almost any archer block to take the Zeppelin down.

I gave it MR3 because it deserves it. For reasons, compare it to Doom Wheels MR2. Thought MR2 would be reasonable too but then again it used in big games so 18PD isnt that rare.

The point in dropping multible bombs is the plentity so no single blast. Missfire for it would be nice though. The rules are complicate for fun. I find no fun in throwing dices without lots of different variables.

Mounts are effective, but that is meant to be. LOOK AT ITS PRIZE! (Im looking forward to see some suggestions for a reasonable one). They represent latest of skaven technology and are bigger in scale. The amount of slaves is limits the number of shots fired too. I really dont like the ratling gun mounts but ppl in my gaming group liked the idea. Flamers are used in ground combat and use burning plasma that raises up not down. The GW got it wrong not me so I dont use them. The missfire tables could be changed tho. The firing sectors are good idea, but my idea of those mounts isnt that limited. They are like those machinegunpods below WW2 era bombers having 360 decree view and full los to below but non to up.

It floats high, its a zeppelin that is what it does. No argument is enough good to change it.

You didnt really bother to read it carefully. Rules Slaves and Technical Marvel are combined and are affected by the current state of the ship. Technical Marvel being somewhat like O&G animosity and Slave being the steam in the steamtank.

The Crash is done like in slowmotion movie (look at the picture) and there are a small change of survival. The Crash in Technical Marvel is more like a dive to the death. Please forgive my rusted english =P

CaptainClark:

1. Yes I know and I wanted you to bring it up. As I said I leave the fluff to more fluent writers.

2. It has T3. Dragon has T6. A dragon cant be shot down with plain arrows, the zeppelin can.

3. Please see the picture for size reference. Yes, I dislike the tank too =)

4. Would you take Khorne for a theme game against Skryre weapons. Dwarfs would be a strong conterder..It is powerfull because it's expensive. The flyer half attack was one rule whitch I werent satisfied with.

5. There is always good in bad. Yes, i think dropping of 300 meter long airship from the skies would cause havoc.

6. A cannonball would just punch though leaving two holes in sides of the ship. And if set to d3 what about bolt throwers.. Remember T3+arrows.

7. I dont like them either, but think them as much more refined and bigger versions of those handheld miniguns. They are mounted and in much better conditions to fire.

8. So taking 40 jezzails for 800 points isnt cheese but unstable mounts are. Hmm...

9. Yes its fine as it is.

10. The system for handling criticals is pretty effective for taking it down already. Actually it would be nice add that the attackher cannot lose the fight.

11. Thats the point.

12. The rules Slaves and Technical Marvel are combined and are affected by the current state of the ship as already mentioned. Read more carefully what happens if the ship loses crew and wounds.

13. It's state of the art Skaven weapon of massdestruction. I really should just call em Poisoned Wind Globes and refer to 5th ed..

14. It isnt really used for psychology. Think it as wisdom instead.

15. D2 are for the purpose of raising the minumum score of dices. For ranges etc. 3d3 for same purposes. Read the rules and think again the difference when using d6:s instead, it wouldnt work.

Half inches are very common. For examble 180 decree turn and moving, wheels etc.

I have posted this to native forum and it was taken with joy. It's basically for theme games, not for real games..

Franky_Banjo

*steals idea* Please do, Id love to see someone doing such a huge model =)

Keep up the comments! And thank you for the positive ones too =P

Mutated it for kids sake.
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CaptainClark
Prince of Bretonnia
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I say again it takes tree ( 3 ) rare choises so it is for bigger games


Yes...3000+ points. Acctually, that's the average size for games in my group...

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The Zeppelin is huge, im talking Hindenburg sized.


Yes, I'm pretty certain the Dwarf one is too....after all, it has CANNON batteries down each side and carries a full complement of Dwarf warriors or trollslayers easily. I can see why GW have never made rules for it....

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With D2:s and D3:s the minimum score is higher than with d6 and in this case 2d6 would be too inaccure or too effective
and
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15. D2 are for the purpose of raising the minumum score of dices. For ranges etc. 3d3 for same purposes. Read the rules and think again the difference when using d6:s instead, it wouldnt work.


Yes...exactly what I said...using a smaller dice to achieve the same maximum but a better minimum and average. Hence, as I said, most people will cry foul (it's simpley not done in the rest of the rules).

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It has T3. Dragon has T6. A dragon cant be shot down with plain arrows, the zeppelin can.


Acctually..A Dragon can. T6 vs S3...6's to wound.

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Would you take Khorne for a theme game against Skryre weapons.


That's not the point. The point is, anything designed, *ANY* other army in the game should have a chance to take it down somehow. It might be difficult, it might be very difficult...but it can be done. And, as it stands, it's true. Every army can take out *anything* fielded by another army somehow (the hardest things to date are: Tyrion, Valten, Archaon and Hellcannons). This creation *breaks* that rule, as a Khornate Mortal army cannot take this thing down. So, it's not a case of Themed gaming...it's a case of competative gaming.

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cannonball would just punch though leaving two holes in sides of the ship.


Acctually, more then likely, a cannonball tearing into a Zeplin would cause the Gas inside to explode and send it down blazing...an arrow would just create a small tear that would let gas out slowly.


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11. No EDITED BY ME. Thats the point.


Watch the language please. There are youngsters on this board.

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13. It's state of the art Skaven weapon of massdestruction.


You mean that it's prone to malfunction and more dangerous to it's inventors and opperators then the enemy??? (That's what "state of the art" means in Skaven...)

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Half inches are very common. For examble 180 decree turn and moving, wheels etc.


Acctually, that's a matter of opinion. I agree, for races with movement 5 (elves and skaven) Turning would produce fractions of .25 and .5. And wheeling could potentially produce fractions. However, GW staff that I've seen tend to round fractions up or down to the nearest inch. And no army book or rule book to date ever uses half inches (yes...this model has a movement of 12.5 inches...). Hence, as I said, it's setting a precedent.


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I have posted this to native forum and it was taken with joy. It's basically for theme games, not for real games..


Well...fair enough. Themed games...I can understand. I was evaluating it as a competative piece....

EDIT: Opps..forgot. Yes, I know it flies...as I said, I understand the fluff/idea of it (and the physics), however, game balance wise, it simpley doesn't work...otherwise other flying things SHOULD be able to do exactly the same...like Dwarf Gyrocoptors. But they don't...for simplicity and game balance.
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Mik says:
christ.. you ALONE could have held us off Middenheap in the SoC
Mik says:
and you CAN quote that
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Horned Shadow
Unregistered

How many turns can you fire a dragon in a "competetive" game. Them compare to 10" moving large target that can be fired even if behind forests.

Just for reminder...Tzeentch dragon with golden eye...and the musk of fear spreads...

No, empire cannonball is non-exploding solid piece of rock/iron/lead. But enough of that. Simulating realistic anything is quite challenge for WH-rules.

I cleared my text, but I must point out that your way of repeating things frustrates.

You take this in competetive view, but generally ignore half inches, itresting...But lets bury the hatchet ;)

I tried to create something new when I designed this and as such I think i made some good rules.

Theme is the word of the day.
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Khilkhret Foe-slayer
He Who Needs To Stick Around For Once
IF you aren't going to listen to advice, why did you post this in a forum generally made for posting things you want reviewed? The suggestions I gave, at least, were in the interest of game balance if it is ever used in a game, thematic or no. ANd, to put it bluntly, I don't /care/ how thematic it is, if anyone I know was to propose using this in a game, no matter how large, I'd laugh and say no. It's not only broken, but it's 800 points that would better go in, say, core units or something. THey'd lose the rest of their army with so much invested in one item...
Guess who's back?
...Yes, back again. This time to stay.
Jackety
 
You know what I just realized?  I wanna see Bush and Lincoln lightsaber-fight.
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scrivener
Member Avatar
*toot*

:blink:

I'm frankly quite surprised that khilkhret and clark took the effort to read and analyse that whole thing... i got about as far as loads of globes before my sanity snapped. Those rules could put a legislator to sleep.

There're some good points here, the rules could do with some tweaking. Not whether its thematic or gameplay worthy, but anyway home rules that are fluffy usually have more downsides, that's what makes it fluffy. Moderation and streamlining...

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No, empire cannonball is non-exploding solid piece of rock/iron/lead.


I think the idea was that if the metal is hot enough, it can ignite the gas (the old zeppelins used hydrogen, and warpgas isinflammable).
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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Horned Shadow
Unregistered

Khilkhret Foe-slayer
Sep 16 2005, 07:54 PM
IF you aren't going to listen to advice...It's not only broken, but it's 800 points that would better go in, say, core units or something.

Because your suggestion doesnt work, some of them that is. If you bother to read certain rules as I said in a reply you'll find out that most of the rules are connected.

The price of the ship was set to low to inspire discussion, but instead you show little maturity in your elitism. This ist supposed to be out of the mill GW treat for teens with GW rulers..It's for fun.

Id still like to see points suggestions.
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Horned Shadow
Unregistered

scrivener
Sep 17 2005, 01:14 AM
:blink:

I'm frankly quite surprised....blabla

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No, empire cannonball is non-exploding solid piece of rock/iron/lead.


I think the idea was that if the metal is hot enough, it can ignite the gas (the old zeppelins used hydrogen, and warpgas isinflammable).

If you didnt bother read, you shouldnt bother to comment.

This isnt a topic for a empire cannon projectile turning into molten plasma in its trajectory...and it will not.
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Frankensqueek
Doomwheel Driver
Hiya Horned Shadow, I don't mean to hijack your idea, but I think this has good potential. I have therefore written up some rules for a simpler, smaller version of the Warp-Zeppelin. I am no expert at writing rules, and so these will be not that good, so bear with me.

I am hoping that this version of the Warp-Zeppelin could be represented by a model which isn't too big. No more than 40cm long which could balance on a stick stuck onto a chariot base.

Here goes, my Rules for His Ratinnesses Ship: Horned Shadow...

HRS Horned Shadow - Skaven Warp-Zeppelin

Points: I'm thinking 300-400ish, and takes up 2 rare slots.

M WS BS S T W I A LD
- - - - 4 5 - - 10

Armour save:
5+

Crew: One Slave pilot, one Warlock engineer, 2 Ratling Gunners.

Crew Gear: Slave has no equipment, Warlock Engineer has full Warlock Engineer equipment.

Armament: One Ratling gun either side.

Special Rules:

Fly, Ratling guns, Warp Generator, Combat, crash, Unbreakable.

Fly: The Warp-Zeppelin flys as described in the Warhammer rule book, and counts as landing afer each move. However, due to it's bulk, it can only move 12 inches per turn.

Ratling Guns: There is one ratling gun placed on each side of the Warp-Zeppelin. Each has a 180 degree arc.

Warp Generator: The warp generator gives the Warp-Zeppelin a 4+ ward save against magic and mundane missiles of strength 4 or less. Against strength 5 or more missiles, the ward save is reduced to 6+. The Warp-Zeppelin gets no ward save in combat.

Combat: The Warp-Zeppelin can never declare a charge, and may never choose to flee as a charge reaction. In combat the Warp-Zeppelin and it's crew may never fight, but in the shooting and magic phases, the warlock engineer and Ratling gunners may still fire their weapons and cast magic, even into their own combat.

Crash: If the Warp-Zeppelin gets destroyed, all the crew die. If the Warp-Zeppelin gets destroyed in combat, every model in the combat, friend or foe takes a single S2 hit, with no Look out Sir Rolls. If the Warp-Zeppelin is destroyed out of combat, such as from enemy fire or their own ratling guns destroying them due to a missfie, then place the large template under the Warp-Zeppelin. Every model caught totally or partially under the template take a single S2 hit.

Unbreakable: The Warp-Zeppelin is unbreakable.



What do you think?

FB

Posted Image

Rusty
 
As for nominations: Frankie, of course, because I love to vote for him and watch him fail :unsure: 


My Army
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