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banners in clan eshin?
Topic Started: 3rd August 2005 - 02:31 AM (608 Views)
D99
Stormvermin
Although It made be legal, I really think it goes against the Eshin army fluff and feel. I just really can't see an eshin army running around with a huge banner waving it around while the rest of the army tries to sneak around.

So yea, go for it, but it just doesn't feel right to me.
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Warlord Gnashik
Backing Veer-myn Dreadball teams!
The more I have thought about this and the more thought I've put into what to use instead of a big ol' banner, the more I think it is ok to use a banner in a UCoD army. The army might be sneaking up on the enemy but obviously some type of alarm has been sounded as you are actually playing the game and not just telling you're opponent "You awake in the morning to find your whole army with their throats slit." The Eshin could easily have someone with them to carry something (not neccessarily a banner) to inspire the troops and act as a rallying point.

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Stiladen the Lethal
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Warlord Gnashik
Aug 4 2005, 04:06 PM
Okay, but what if the Eshin used something other than a banner? Look at DoW, their Paychest counts as a Battle Standard. Now, what could a bunch of Ninja Rats carry that would be as inspirational to them as a Battle Standard? Anybody got any suggestons?

Flayed enemy character, slain by an assasin. That would inspire the 'runners to fight and slay enemies like their masters.



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Antherak_173
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Evil Overlord
And why would banners be so visible ? You fight at night, remember ? So between tree leaves that moves with the wind, the small sounds of the forests and rivers and the un-stealth of the opposing army, how would it be un-fluffy ? I can very well, fluff-wise, see a storm banner in eshin armies. Why don't fight in a storm as well as at night, to further impair the enemy ? The only drawback i see for chieftains, are their movement of 5, which slow down the unit he is in.

And just look at japanimation, or anything with ninjas, and many have banners with them. Taking a BSB isn't powergaming nor justify a loss in comp.

I may just try the Bsb, to see if it could work, but that would replace my expensive, but efficient warpstone wielding assassin.
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Warlord Gnashik
Backing Veer-myn Dreadball teams!
While I am not including one in the next battle I am fighting, I have come to the conclusion that a banner would fit into the army well. Like I stated earlier, it is obvious that our opponent knows you're coming because a game is being played even if it is under the cover of night. It is definately conceivable that the Eshin would have a banner with them to rally behind and unfurl it since a battle is taking place.

As for their lower Movement, keeping him on his own and Skitterleaping him where he needs to be seems to be a good idea. Especially if he has a Storm Banner which works worthout him being in a unit.

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Stiladen the Lethal
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i agree that a battle standard bearer fits but as i would never include one as i like to have the under cover of darkness rule in play it keeps me safer.
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Warlord Gnashik
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Stiladen the Lethal
Aug 26 2005, 11:12 AM
i agree that a battle standard bearer fits but as i would never include one as i like to have the under cover of darkness rule in play it keeps me safer.

You can still use UCoD if you have a BSB.

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meowser
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are you saying its powergaming because you're trying to get a banner in a skirmisher army? I think it's common sense!
i think taking a bsb, especially if you model it conceptually and not as a flag-waver and come up with something that would 'count-as' for clan eshin, it would be entirely appropriate imho

if you want banners in an ucod army, let go of your precious triads and take two units of duellists with standards and musicians.
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Stiladen the Lethal
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Warlord Gnashik
Aug 27 2005, 08:35 PM
Stiladen the Lethal
Aug 26 2005, 11:12 AM
i agree that a battle standard bearer fits but as i would never include one as i like to have the under cover of darkness rule in play it keeps me safer.

You can still use UCoD if you have a BSB.

ahh yes you can many apologies
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Skitterleeper
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The idea behind UCoD is that the entire force is Skirmishing, thus the rule only works if all your units are skirmishers or characters, the character amendment is so that you can bring assassins/sorcerers that don't technically skirmish. So I would say that the spirit of the rule would not allow a chieften acting as a BSB because no skirmishing unit (a least in the Skaven army) is allowed to carry a standard. As the general rules stand however independent characters do behave as skirmishers in all other respects so it is not void UCoD. I would not use one however simply because of the deminished mobility, I would not want to depend on spell casting alone in order to get anyone important into position.
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Warlord Gnashik
Backing Veer-myn Dreadball teams!
When you think about it, a BSB's M5 isn't really that big of a liability if you don't join a unit. When marching he'd only be 2" behind the first turn and 4" on the second. By that time you could probably engage the enemy. The standard bearer's 12" range to reroll break tests would be plenty to affect many of your units. For the most part you'd only have to worry about keeping him within 5" of your units so that he couldn't be targeted by the enemy.

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Skriggit the Rat Ninja
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Well I suppose an actual banner is highly unfluffy, but if you want to use one, GO AHEAD! Just model a chieftain to look like an assassin holding a stick with the heads of random armies nailed to it (collect some bitz from you gaming buddies) to represent the heads of generals that have been assassinated, that would sure inspire me if I were an assassin-in-training!

However, remember how fragile your units are and how easy they are to break. Even if you have rerolls, a reroll on LD 4 or 3 after modifiers isn't going to help you much, and losing that BSB to being run down costs you his points, AND an extra 200 for banner+BSB.
I personally think one of the advantages of the Eshin army is that they DON'T have any banners to cough up free victory points to the enemy.

However, I must say that playing with a Storm Banner is so unbelievably fluffy since its already at night that I would definitely use it for a game or two just for fun! :D

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BSB only help rerolls of break tests, not panic.
And if you're losing combat with the center of your battle force, then theres something wrong there and you probably don't have a chance of wining that combat at all...
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