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Update on Warmakers
Topic Started: 6th July 2005 - 08:13 PM (674 Views)
daemonic badger
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Veteran/OAP
Update from the Warmakers Campaign
Hello again!
I have come with news from the development of the Warmakers campaign. The first suggestions for the factions and general background of the campaign is now completed, and its time for you, the player, to determine if they meet your demands.

Below, I will present not one but three different versions of factions; we decided to make three this time because we want to show you many different ways of having factions. In the first we have three factions, and have created them be simple and balanced for the game mechanic, while not trying to go against people’s wishes. In the second we have four factions, and we have tried our best to fit people where they have said they wanted to go. In the third one we have five factions, and we have been a bit more liberal with the placements, trying to find different ways to put things together without actually going against peoples wishes.

Balance?
But before we go on to the factions themselves, lets talk a bit about balance and scaling. One of the first things people will consider when they see the factions are if they are balanced or not. Is one faction to big or too small compared to the rest, is there any risk of anyone dominating just because of size? This has been the topic of some discussion on Warmakers, and we have realized that it will be almost impossible for us to create balanced factions. First of all, we don’t know how many people from each race that will play, and secondly, even if the numbers are the same it also depends on how active each person is. One person who post once a day is as powerful as seven people who post once a week. Getting things totally equal will be almost impossible.

To solve this problem we have been looking at two things. The first and most important one is of course making a system where tactics and cunning can outweigh brute force, to make sure no one can win just by weight of numbers. The second one is scaling. The concept of scaling is simple, each turns wins are automatically scaled so that wins from smaller factions count for a bit more, so that the differences are evened out and they get closer to being equal. A scaling would probably not be total, the one with more wins would still be a bit better off (otherwise it would defeat the point of playing games and winning), but it gives smaller factions more of an even ground to compete on, and coupled with a good system, it will be the faction with the greatest organization and skill that wins.

So when you read the suggestions for factions, keep in mind that factions do not necessarily have to be the exact same size, some difference is acceptable, and quite frankly inevitable. Now let’s get on with the actual suggestions, but I’d just like to point out that these are suggestions, and are not final. If you do not like things, they can be changed. At the end of the post there are a few questions that it would be good if you answered, so that we know where to take it from here.

Wagers:
Additionally we are creating a system of wagers that we will go into with alter post after factions are created. Each race will ask for so much if they accomplish their goals in the campaign and as the story designers we will balance that with things each race can lose. Needless to say, the more you ask for if you win, the more you’ll lose if you lose. The system will be such that any gains you could receive will equal any losses you’ll incur. Please keep that in mind as you solidify your final race goals.



Three faction system:
1. High Elves, Wood Elves, Brettonians, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings
2. Empire, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms
3. All Chaos, Orcs & Goblins, Skaven, Vampire Counts


This system is our main option and is fairly simple, the races with fairly noble motivations have allied together in faction one. Faction two consists of race out in one way or another for money, and those wishing for conquest are in faction three.
Goals:
Faction 1:
Take the stone and mummies from faction three and keep faction two from opening the road.

Faction 2:
Defeat faction three to open the road and expand control on it and keep faction one from closing the road again.

Faction 3:
Defend the stone from faction one and assault the CD and OK to gain territory, fortresses and prevent any race from decisively winning at the road, thus maintaining the status quo.

The goals above might seem very incompleat, but to make sure this post didn't get to long, we have kept it short. The list of overall goals for the races at the bottom should explain most of this. If you have any questions just ask, and as soon as we know more about which variant people like, we will specify things more.



Four Faction system:

1. HE, WE, brets, lizzies
2. Empire, Dwarves, Druchii, CD
3. O&G, Skaven, VC
4. All Chaos, TK, OK

Goals:
Faction 1:
*Seize the stone in the vale
*Block the silver road

Faction 2:
*Clear the silver road
*Make the trade route safer by building settlements.
*Keep Chaos from seizing the stone

Faction 3:
*Occupy swaths of the darklands for settlements.
*Raid the CD for armaments and slaves.
*Keep any one faction from claiming the road.
*Seize the mummies.

Faction 4:
*Keep any one faction from claiming the road.
*Seize the mummies
*Seize the stone in the vale



Five faction system:

1. Empire, Dwarves, Brettonians
2. Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Wood Elves, High Elves.
3. Orcs&Gobbos, Skaven, Beastmen
4. Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdom, Dogs of War
5. Vampire Counts (the Cabal and all that), Chaos, Druchii.

Goals:
Faction1:
*Clear the road
*Crusade against the kurgan tribes entering the dark land from the north

Faction2:
*Get the mummies and the stone to stop their influence in the Dark Lands
*Stopping the incursion of the Old Worlders, to keep them from meddling in things they do not understand

Faction3:
*Invade the Chaos Dwarf realm, Orcs want to pick a fight and free slaves to build a Waaaagh! Skaven want to steal CD technology and uses the orcs as a divertion. Beastmen have allied with the Skaven since helping to keep the CD occupied helps chaos.

Faction4:
*Defend against the new threads
*Destroy the necromancer cabal
*Take the stone to increase the sorcerers power

Faction5:
*Defend the stone and mummies
*Stop the Old Worlders from taking the road so that the kurgan tribes will not be cut of from coming down from the north
*Take over the Desolation, where a large amount of old and huge bones make the ideal breedingground for an undead army.





Race goals:

Empire:
* Clear the Silver Road
* Set up border prince style towns on the road to promote more trade.
Dwarfs:
* Clear the silver road.
* Reclaim a lost hold in the world’s edge mountains bordering the darklands.

Ogre Kingdoms:
*Clear the Silver Road
* Set up armored settlements along the road to make it safer for trade.

Dark Elves:
*Reopen the Silver road to increase ties to the Empire and Ogres, while avoiding any contact with the vile Dwarves. Use these ties to increase trade between Druchii and the Empire/Ogres so that Druchii coffers are filled and a slave trade may be begun in the Empire to further Druchii principles and slaving.
*Seize the city of Pigbarter and create a Druchii trading colony able to attack the city of spires.

High Elves:
*Seize the stone in the vale to keep it away from Chaos.
*Block the silver road and seize pigbarter to make High Elf sanctioned trade the only link between Cathay and the Old World.

Lizardmen:
*Create a jungle in the darklands using the stone to expand territorial reach and build a new temple city for the first time in centuries.
*Keep the stone out of the hands of Chaos.

Bretonnians:
*Further Bretonnian honor, or dishonor depending on events, via a crusade in the darklands.
*Block the silver road to use the vast Bretonnian maritime fleet to trade with Cathay using paid High Elf escorts, thus usurping trade from the Empire and creating favorable circumstances for Bretonnian colonization to find good harbors to support this fleet.
*Keep the stone out of the hands of Chaos.

Wood elves:
*Keep the glade in the vale, where the stone is, from dieing.
*Seize the stone so that a forest can be created in the darklands thus expanding Wood Elf reach for the first time in centuries.

Chaos Dwarfs:
*Seize the silver road and fortify it to increase weapons and engineering trade with the rest of the world.
*Gather slaves from the invading races.

Greenskins:
*Free greenskin slaves from the Chaos Stunties. In the four faction system where the CD and greenskins are allied this is done by setting the condition that greenskins helping the CD will result in the freeing of slaves. To ensure this, as the greenskins win victories a greater Waagh! will form that could be directed against the chaos stunties if they don’t keep their word.

Beastmen:
*Expand from the haunted forest near Ind into the darklands.

Vampire Counts:
*Keep the mummies from TK control and keep the Empire from a decisive victory.
*Create settlements in the darklands to create an undead realm for the Vampire counts.

Dogs of War:
*Secure prestige and plunder for the preeminent mercenary captains in the war.

Chaos:
*A band of Chaos daemons goes to the dark lands for power to usurp the Gods in the form of more worshipers and the stone in the vale. If they capture the stone they could build an entire new beachhead of chaos in the darklands.
*Promote disorder to weaken all sides and gain power from the bloodshed and chaos in the area. To do this they will keep anyone from a decisive victory at the road.

Skaven:
*Gain some powerful poison from mummies for clan Eshin.
* Gain some powerful disease by using the stone to create it for clan pestilens.
*Bring prestige to a beleaguered clan Moulder in the SoC aftermath
*Invade Chaos Dwarf territory to steal Chaos Dwarf artillery for clan skyre.
*Grab some slaves for the other clans, Chaos dwarf slave pits are quite tempting for this.
*Seize territory in the Dark lands by expanding tunnels in the area by winning enough victories to keep the other races busy.

Tomb Kings:
*Reclaim the mummies from the necromancers.



Now its time to have fun, please decide which faction system you like or create your own and contact other forums and see if they want to go along if you want. Also please finalize what race goals you want to accomplish and we’ll determine what your losses could be in a later post. Please feel free to ask any questions about motivations, why certain race are together, etc. if you feel the need to.

Thank You
daemonic badger
Warmakers ambassador
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GutRot the RatBastard
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I rather like the campaign's simplicity. It makes internet campaigning a viable possibility! Excellent work, my friend.

Matt #gs#
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s'nkeep
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Ajax = warpstone juice

pinned topic, and edited the spelling mistake :)
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Lightbringer
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Quote:
 
I rather like the campaign's simplicity. It makes internet campaigning a viable possibility! Excellent work, my friend.

Thank you, not that it tells us much about which variant of the factions you preffer... :P

Oh and Beaver, when did you change your name to [insert name here]?
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daemonic badger
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What Insert name Here? :rolleyes:


keep the comments coming and please tell us which faction system you prefer
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

Five faction system looks the most logical option for the skaven (and the fluff with it) to me. With more factions, you can allow the races to delve in on a more individual goal, instead of a common goal. This way, interforum projects with fluff (for example) can be promoted much easier...

Greetz
In the Horned One we trust, all others we monitor.

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Skaven track record [W/D/L] @ 17th of August, 2014: BB 34/19/55; MH 9/2/6; WHF 17/8/30
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GutRot the RatBastard
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The Five Faction system! It provides the most Skaveny approach to wargaming.

Matt #gs#
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Lightbringer
Chaos git
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The Five Faction system! It provides the most Skaveny approach to wargaming.


What is that, divide and conquer? :P

I guess we will have to put some more thought in the five faction system, lots of people (not only here) like it more than the rest.
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Lightbringer
Chaos git
Important Update about the Factions
As you probably know a lot of people have been skeptical to the factions we have created for Warmakers, and have felt that they were either unbalanced or unfluffy. We created a few different options, but the even the best of them became nothing more than acceptable, they would work but there was nothing much to praise about them. But being average is not the goal of Warmakers, our goal is to create the largest fan based campaign yet and we cannot do that with things that people feel are only acceptable.

So we have decided to scrap the factions in favor of a system that can give people what they want.

Instead of factions we have created a new system that lets every race fight for itself without having to bend its fluff and goals to fit a pre-made alliance. We have made a system where each race is its own faction, and where we still avoid the clutter of having fifteen different stats for each battle on the map. This system is meant to give people the freedom that was not possible with factions, and let people really do things their own way. Below here I have included the quick version of it that should give you all the information you need, but if you want a more detailed description, go to our website.



Quick Version
1. Each race is one faction; you fight only for your own race and not for an alliance of races. Each race has a set of goals. The winner of the campaign will be the one who accomplishes the most of these goals.
2. Each battle on the map is about a specific event (such as the assault of a fort) that ties into the goals of the races. Some races will want the event to success (the fort falls) other want to stop it, some will not care about that particular event.
3. There are only two sides in each battle, the once who want the event to succeed and the once who want it to fail. Races are not locked into these, when you post you are free to choose for which side.
4. Once a battle is over, everyone whose goal has been fulfilled by the result benefits.
5. Alliances are free to be formed and broken as players se fit simply by agreeing to help each other in different battles, or to join to take down a race who is in the lead.



So what now?
What we will do now is first and foremost set up the race-goals. You have already specified what you want your race to be doing in the campaign, yet when we asked for goals the last time we asked for goals that would fit in an alliance with someone[/], now you do not have that restriction. Also, the last time we were not clear enough with the fact that the fluff will change to fit the goals, you do not have to settle in for what the fluff seems to offer.

As an example. In the first goals created, the High Elves wanted to stop the stone from falling into the wrong hands and release Chaos over the world. Some players where not so happy with this since that seems to be what High Elves always get to do in a campaign, but settled for it since Chaos and High Elves are enemies after all. However, this is where you can change things when you make your goals. If the High Elves choose not to go after the stone to stop Chaos, but rather find other goals, then the fluff for the stone will be changed so that it will not let Chaos loose into the world if its destroyed. It might well be important to someone else, but not in a way that it becomes the High Elves responsibility. You are free to find goals that you are comfortable with, we will change the fluff accordingly.

If the Chaos Dwarf players don’t care about the new undead threat, but are more interested in attacking the Ogres in the Sentinels, then write that. If the Empire players aren’t satisfied with clearing the road but wants to set up a new outpost to, the write that. Come with a list of things you would like to accomplish in the Dark Lands, we will make sure you get your chance in this campaign and that all races will have something to gain as well as something to loose.

So, do you want to keep the goals you have already said, or do you want to redo them now that you have this information?
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s'nkeep
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Ajax = warpstone juice

I say redo them we can think of better ones yes yes...
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Lightbringer
Chaos git
I'm hopping around to different forums and posting ideas based on what people has said before. Here I just wanted to add something about internal politics and rivalries.

Before, you said it would be cool to have the Skaven involvement based on internal political struggles, and that it would also be cool to have that represented in the game somehow. Well, here is an idea for how.

Say that Skaven has ten goals, I have no idea if it will be that many or not yet but the number is not really important. Now a clan like clan Pestilence for example will be more interested in some of the goals than others, stealing technology is perhaps not their primary interest. Some mummy dust to create poison or similar is probably allot more interesting for them. The same goes for all the clans, some goals would be more interesting than others.

No race will be able to fulfill all their goals. Sure, it’s possible, but improbable since you would have to win every battle you are involved in. So the question is, which goals can be sacrificed for the greater good? And which goals are imperative and should be offered extra attention?
And there you have your internal struggle. You could simply have the struggle by basing the goals upon the clans, so the clan that fulfills the most of its goals is the winner and is strengthened by the war since they have shown their power to the Council of 13 and all that. Skaven as a race would still have only one set of goals as far as everyone else is concerned, but internally there is conflict.

How far you would want to take it is up to you, since you can choose which side to post for, people supporting one clan could always fight against another clan, aiding the other side of their battles. That would hurt the overall chances of Skaven winning the campaign, but if you care more about your own struggles and fluff, then its quite possible. Or you just let it stay on a more manageable level that does not harm your chances in the overall campaign.



Just a thought.
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daemonic badger
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UPDATE


Perilous Roads
Hi there. As you might know Warmakers is running in “stealth” mode during the summer, i.e. not very fast. But we are still doing things, and we thought we would take the time to inform and invite you to one of those things. Warmakers is getting a pretty good first idea of how everything will fall into place with factions and mechanics and all, and so we are preparing for a large scale test-run of the system to make sure things actually work. This test run has been dubbed Perilous Roads and is in essence a mini-campaign that takes place in the World Edge Mountains as the Empire Dwarfs Orks and many other armies tries to pass into the Dark Lands.

This mini-campaign will not be played out in the sense of players playing battles and reporting the result, while we might do such a full test later we will for now just approximate things to be able to check things a bit faster. As such, each player involved in Perilous Roads represents one race, and gets a number of wins each turn to place in the open battles, to represent the players of that race posting wins. There will be a number of battles open, and a large number of players involved, since the main thing we want to test is the system for races and goals, and for that we need to see how it will work with multiple races at once.

So where do you come in? Well first of all we just wanted to inform the participant forums that we are doing this. Secondly, we also invite you to take part if you want to, we can always use more players for it. Participating in Perilous Roads will not take much of your time, since its basically just looking at the map and the stats, then deciding where you place the number of wins allotted to you. The only thing that may take some time is plotting with the other players and trying to ally/deceive them into helping you.

So if you are interested in viewing or participating in this test, go HERE.
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Lightbringer
Chaos git
The Warmakers Project has been put on hold

Due to the lack of activity on the Warmakers forum the project has now been put on hold for an undetermined amount of time, it will not start up again unless we are convinced that we have enough support to make it move forward. With the current amount of people working on the campaign it will simply never get of the ground, and therefore continuing work now would waste time and energy as well as divert attention away from other projects out there that have larger chances of success. We always said we accepted that the task might be to great, its time to show that now.

I want to thank those who have helped us and I hope the people involved can learn something from the Warmakers, experiences than can be used in other projects and campaigns, and that no one thinks its been only a waste of time. I still believe what I said in the beginning, that it’s better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all.

/Lightbringer


Perhaps I should start playing in Civil War now that I have some spare time :P
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Saint Anger
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Holiest Of Angered Furriness
i am sad to see this, but maybe it will be taken off hold eventually

until then, come fight for the strongholds....
singthescreams
 
anger continues ranting about the desecration of his tomb, his fancy sword, and the cost of crude oil
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Lightbringer
Chaos git
Warmakers slowly reawakening and changing:
Now that the summer and the LoA campaign is over we are slowly starting to work again on Warmakers. But we might not return in the form you have seen us before. Warmakers became inactive for a reason, people lost interest in what we where doing. So we are now reexamining our basic concepts to see if we need to do any changes. Once we are done, the campaign might look entirely different.

We are also discussing changes in how we work, since the way we have done it so far have taken to long as each decision has become dragged out. So hopefully, you might in the future se more actual progress from us as well as a better storyline.

Just thought I should update this a bit :P

/LB
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