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I think they need a...; Whats Next in warhammer?
Topic Started: 23rd June 2005 - 10:27 AM (2,060 Views)
SingTheScreams
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scrivener
Jul 22 2005, 11:30 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone sorta keep distinctions between Cathay, Nippon and Inja? My assumption always was Cathay was China (monks and temple dogs), Nippon was Japan (with the samurai) and Inja was Ninja-land.

Just me personal opinion, but I wouldn't go so far as to call samurai armour the best in the world at the time. I certainly wouldn't consider them 4+ next to platemetal armour. :P

I think eventually, not soon but eventually, GW's going to relent and give us the far-east army. A Cathay/Nippon/Inja army might be interesting, maybe along the lines of the 'cathay core unit is special in nippon army' sorta deal. We could then get the monks and temple dogs with the samurai and light cavalry archers, repeating crossbows and cannons, and the skirmishng ninjas with throwing stars. :D

for one thing, it's Ind not Inja, and it would be like India... they have their brahma god, something with Malal (who will NOT be reappearing). forget about Ind.

also, i dont think they would cluster the far east armies. they're simply too distinct... btw ninjas and samurai were in japan.nippon, and shaolin monks and the god-emperor were in cathay.china

the two countries are completely different and i dont think they should be. however, in the OK book they have a cathayan longsword (+1ws and +1i or something) which is more like a katana than any chinese weapon
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scrivener
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*toot*

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Clan Eshin had traveled widely, learned much in distant lands like Inja, Cathay, and Nippon, and perfected the art of silent and stealthy warfare.

Sorry, but that was bangsmack in the middle of the eshin commentary on the skaven page at the GW website. :P

My idea was, if they were ever to come out with the eastern armies, clustering it would help appease all the various fans, while also allowing for sufficient variety in the army (which was one of the complaints I hear about OK). That way we can have the monks and the samurai without having to write 2 separate armies. And saves having to think up enough different types of samurai units to fill an army. It's not very fluff-accurate, but it's marketable.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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meowser
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[inja] is probabtly a proto-form of [ind], before GW got their fluff consistent

basically this is what ive heard off of portent/warseer

7th ed... possible scenario set a la battle for macragge, based on karak eight peaks... armies are supposedly dwarves and gobbos

(dwarves get 2 plastic regiments and plastic artillery) plastic dwarven infantry will be heavy armour w/ cc weapons (warriors, rangers, miners, longbeards), and a separate box for light armoured crossbowmen and thunderers (has anyone ever seen a dwarven crossbowman in play, btw?)
plastic artillery will most likely be cannon
apparently everything is gettign remodeled for dwarves except gyrocopter, and they will be the 1st to get a new book

gobbos will get new plastic infantry, smaller and more gnoblarish, less superdeformed proportions.
also heard of plastic spider riders (forest gobbos what what) and plastic trolls (!)... (well if they made plastic rat ogres they would have to make plastic trolls -- much more diverse, can be in O&C and any chaos army (bar SoC lists))

and just my opinions mixed with hogwash ive heard, id anticipate empire, o&g, skaven, DE and vampire counts all for updates

empire only needs new state troops (swordsmen, handgunners, halberdiers/spearmen)
og only really needs plastic boarboys and plastic savage orcs
skaven need new plastic clanrats, the miniature range for skaven is pretty complete otherwise (my dream is a plastic skrye box with enough for a weapons team, 3 jezzails, 2 globadiers and an engineer -- then the range would be almost entirely plastic)
dark elves have only 1 plastic box.. i forsee plastic cosairs, possibly no new warrios (they are endearing), plastic shades and dark riders
vampire counts need plastic ghouls and new plastic dire wolves... new bats/fell bats would be nice too...
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In death, thy glory in heaven
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'Ttakquick
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They could easily go with the whole "eastern" role, much like Scriv stated, and possibly concentrate on an amry composed of human and mystical beings with a 50/50 ratio to it.

So in a sence this would somewhat keep away from the "no new humie army" agaenda that GW probably has.

As for the superior samurai armor thing (4+) that many players have created for their version of the eastern army, I believe that it is overpowered. A standard set of armor should provide enough protection like heavy armor (which doesn't mean that samurai didn't have heavy armor a.k.a. full plate).

Samurai strength should be represented as above average weapon/balisitic skill and also give them the stubborn or even the unbreakable rule (samurai NEVER ran from battle, besides the very-very-very few exceptions that have probably occured throughout japanese history).

I'd say do it GW. Incorporate nippon, cathay, ind into one army once and for all (don't forget the heavily influenced mystical beings though!)
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He-who-thirsts
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Just me personal opinion, but I wouldn't go so far as to call samurai armour the best in the world at the time. I certainly wouldn't consider them 4+ next to platemetal armour.

Well that's what historians say... I can't back it up myself ^_^ I'm not saying that it should be 4+ tho, just pointing out that it it will be, it's justifiable.

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SingTheScreams
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He-who-thirsts
Jul 25 2005, 12:03 AM
Quote:
 
Just me personal opinion, but I wouldn't go so far as to call samurai armour the best in the world at the time. I certainly wouldn't consider them 4+ next to platemetal armour.

Well that's what historians say... I can't back it up myself ^_^ I'm not saying that it should be 4+ tho, just pointing out that it it will be, it's justifiable.

[

id say give them heavy armor, with "special armor" as a character upgrade or something, like dwarven gromril armor.

id say stubborn for the samurai. an unbreakable army? or even one with more than one or two unbreakable units would be insane

a samurai statline (i think) would be something around the lines of

Code:
 
m4 ws4 bs4 s4 t3 w1 i4 a1 ld8
12 points
stubborn
come with hand weapon, heavy armor, and bow.
can get shield (+1), spear (+1), or katana (+3, counts as OK cathayan longsword giving +1ws and +1i)


but thats just my take on it for a good core/special choice. you can have
expensive, 16-point ws5 s4 troops with stubborn and a 4+ armor save
or
average-to-costy, 12 point troops with ws4 s4, a 5+ armor save, and stubborn
[/color]
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arqueek
 
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Tilara
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Stubborn might be okay, but perhaps if they do fail that check and break they commit seppuku rather than flee and the enemy only scores 1/2 victory points for the unit. Likewise, if ever a character denies a challange they're forced to commit seppuku rather than retreat to the back rank.

I'd say 5+ armor save. They'd fight with a katana, 2h weapon with +1 str (like a halberd), but gives an extra +1 save in close combat. I don't see any reason to give them some sorta superheavy, yet lightweight, type armor.

Also, maybe give 'shield wall' type of troop. They'd kinda act like skirmisher detachment, but they'd jump out of the way when the main unit declared a charge (or was charged), and the main unit would be permitted to draw line of sight though them for the charge. Likewise, when charged they'd automaticly run to the sides of the unit allowing charger to redirect to the parent.
Maybe give them a 3+ save vs missles that never was reduced below 5+ from modifiers. Things that give no armor save like a cannon would damage them as per normal and they don't get any save.
This would buy them some missle protection without having a "sacrifical unit", instead, they'd get a specialized unit.
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scrivener
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*toot*

That seppuku thing is a great idea actually! *Die before Dishonour!*

Quote:
 
I'd say 5+ armor save. They'd fight with a katana, 2h weapon with +1 str (like a halberd), but gives an extra +1 save in close combat. I don't see any reason to give them some sorta superheavy, yet lightweight, type armor.


I reckon this is a good idea too. To keep stuff more "accurate", perhaps the 2-hand katana being the standard handweapon, 2nd hw options available for the more elite-ish (nito-ryu style) and no shield options throughout the whole army. Besides that, they could have a core of spearmen, archers and muskets. Light archer cavalry is a must for a samurai army. For the spirit-side, we have dragons and tengu (winged troll-things). I think as a whole the army should be light, fast but not too heavily-armoured. Standard or below-standard armour saves, no shields.

In regards to samurai armour strength, it was designed from lacquered wood for the most part and intended for protection against arrows and cutting-type weapons. Japan has a lack of iron ore deposits, which meant that metal armour was virtually unseen. Because the katana is effectively a cutting/slicing weapon, wooden armour kept most of that at bay, but against a western mace, axe or a warhammer, it wouldn't match plate armour.
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*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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Tir-sah
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I heard a rumour... (people come closer, Tir-sah starts whispering)
"Geriatrics kingdoms", a army full of old people. We have the car that doesn't stop giving turning signals, we have the electric scooter cavalry, and the dreaded, fear causing "mumbling infantry". They are ruled by the "granny", who is said to be heavily overpowered.

MUTATE: this pointless post was brought to you by Bas&Tirsa de Bruijn LTD. :D
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scrivener
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*toot*

Tir-sah
Jul 25 2005, 09:27 AM
... and the dreaded, fear causing "mumbling infantry". They are ruled by the "granny", who is said to be heavily overpowered.

I've heard the granny wields a 2-handed walking stick that causes D6 wounds, but this "mumbling" infantry, does that work like the banshee's ghostly howl?

*This post might just be on-topic, who knows what goes on in the twisted minds of the GW design team anyway?* ^_^
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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'Ttakquick
Grey Seer
I heard that the mumbling infantry gets to "lap around in CC regardless of who won the combat " rule like the old 5th edition vampire counts book.

I also heard that the granny has a magical weapon called the Granny Fanny's Fantabulous Flying Slipper of Doom, which she wields in her foot, that counts as a bolt thrower when shot in the shooting phase.
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brownmccoy
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well... I have heard on a bunch of forums dwarves were next, and then i'd assume 7th ed.
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philleehellphia
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brownmccoy
Jul 25 2005, 06:38 PM
well... I have heard on a bunch of forums dwarves were next, and then i'd assume 7th ed.

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Ratphink
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I too have heard a rumour of a new army, and it's not of Geriactic... it's the Red Light District ruled over by the dreaded... dare I say her name... dominatrix![Kiddies under the age of 12 are suggested to just smile and nod and remain oblivious and innocent. Parental guidance Required to understand joke. You shall be assimilated. We are borg. Resistance is futile.(If this wasn't a random post, I really don't know what is)]

AHA! I was right about their armor! *does a jig* I had always thought it was leather, but I s'pose I can't always be right. :lol:

And I agree with Scriv. Who the hell does know what goes on in their mind? I mean really... I bet they don't even know what they're doing half the time.
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Sebrent
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Bah to rumors. In the General's Compendium, they have Chaos Dwarfs all over the place in campaign examples.
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