| Dwarf Tactica; How to beat Dwarfs with Skaven | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 13th September 2004 - 06:26 AM (5,907 Views) | |
| Horned Rat | 8th January 2007 - 07:13 PM Post #31 |
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id say (correct me if i'm wrong please, im new to skaven) blow a hole in, (like earlier) then if you play like me moulder/skyre, use clanrats and anything that gets into close combat use warpfire thrower and rat ogres, against dwarves that would surely cause a hole to swarm everything in for a final kill-kill! |
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| Annoyingpest | 31st May 2007 - 06:15 PM Post #32 |
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That's for the help, like 9/10 of the people at my GW play dwarfs... (I don't) |
| Therapist | |
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| Aderashi | 1st June 2007 - 10:24 PM Post #33 |
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Chieftain
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yeah I hate dwarfs =/ But the 1 thing I hated most was playing against them at 2000 pts. I like my screaming bell and I like to use it. The point is that my opponend (dwarf player) alway's has those nasty str7 bolts that hit on a 3+ (at long range). He just shoots the belle down in turn 1 or 2. And YES the bell has a 3+ ward safe.. But dont expect it to save you a lot of times =(. |
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| Annoyingpest | 2nd June 2007 - 09:56 AM Post #34 |
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Dwarfs in games of 2000+ usually have ridiculous amouts of artillery.... So you can't really use chariots (Screaming Bell) although I don't think the Bell would too effective against dwarfs as they have high leadership and no cavelry... |
| Therapist | |
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| Danger Mouse | 23rd June 2007 - 09:05 AM Post #35 |
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Tunnelers are essential, watch out for any runesmiths hanging warmachines with great weapons. For this reason i take a champion in all tunnelers, and challange any hero set to guard a warmachine- kill the unit and win on combat res. Sometimes i forgo magic all together and simply let them waste their antimagic points. Dont engage a dwarf lord, ever. If a hero is not mounted on bearers, chances are they have an oath stone- this means you can never negate their ranks. once set an oathstone the unit can no longer move, however it no longer has any flanks or rear- use this. I once made a unit of longbeards place an oathstone with a nice flank charge. I lost, broke and ran... but later rallied. Meanwhile, that expensive unit was effectively taken from the game. (not to mention immobile infront of half a dozen warpfire throwers) Its hard for me to win against them, as i field an almost exclusively warlord clan- i take no pestilence, or moulder (i only ever use packs of giant rats, fielded independantly- run them at the most unreliable warmachine (organ gun, flame cannon and hope it misfires, if you live, charge, if it targets you, then your army lives a little longer). Eshin agents i use as they are hired, and skyre weapon teams and globes are bought but i use no jezzails or cannons. Whilst the fluff limits my army, it makes for a damn fun time... when you place 250 models down in a 2000 point game, people generally get a little daunted.- especially when you converted your bsb so the banner is 5 inches tall Use a warlord against dwarfs, you need the leadership. A good combo is a large unit of storm vermin with shields. Their magic banner is war banner. put a bsb in there with banner of the swarm. Fight defensively in combat with your 3+ armour save (heavy, hand weapon + shield) Your static combat res is: +1 banner +1 bsb +1 outnumber +1swarm +1 war +3 ranks use it to take out the weakest looking dwarf warrior regiment (of a decent size) and clean up some vp and get behind their lines. Watch out for rune of determination... finally, if ever they declare a charge on you, flee and flame them with throwers. |
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| Lord-Snikerz | 26th June 2007 - 04:07 AM Post #36 |
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I have found the BSB with the storm banner to be quite an annoyance against the Dwarf gun line. And on 2 occassions I have taken out dwarf warmachines with the bell. But I can see how the warlord would free up points and be beneficial for LD. |
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| ArmouredWolf | 10th March 2008 - 08:41 AM Post #37 |
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Dont mean to rise a dead topic, but need some advice Well im New to the Underempire have been hiding in the shadows for some time now just watching as a guest. Im a old skaven player, love everything about them even the bad stuff. I mostly play themed armys that are fun to see running around the board and sometimes winning and sometimes not. I have played agianst lots of Dwarf lists and have a good standing against them but today i played vs a DWARF GUNFIRE LINE. does anyone out there have any advice to win or get even a MV vs a Dwarf Gunline. <Dwarf gunline. Avil of doom<Special chr.> Many units of Crossbows and Thunderers. Goblin Hewer, Bolt thrower, and pretty much anything else you can think of that can kill Skaven at range. <Including Longbeards and Hammeres.> Just need some advise <Have never walk away from a game thinking i wasted my time , except for today.> Thanks in advance. AW |
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With Hate all things are possible http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/Armoured+Wolf | |
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| Zavratatar | 10th March 2008 - 09:47 AM Post #38 |
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Grey Seer
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I played vs dwarfs yesterday, 2250pts. He didn't really go overboard on the machines, he had a organ gun, a bolter, a cannon and the anvil. I used two tunnelteams and both more or less messed up, but I shot down the bolter using my jezzails (10 of them) and I got the cannon with the d3 wounds on warmachines result on my bell. Had it been a real gunline I'd have used the stormbanner, but still, playing against a boring dwarf player can be like pulling teeth. Deploy the bell, if you have it, behind a hill in turn one. Get the tunnelingteams up in turn two, and if you don't, start running for his lines anyway and fire the stormbanner. If you're using the bell you can take a plaguepriest with the warpstone amulet and a cencer, Skitterleap him next to the anvil (the thing usually hides out of sight of everything else anyway, so he won't get shot) and let him kill the little buggers. Advancing a warplightning cannon so that it can shoot at the anvil is also useful, although the little buggers get a 4+ ward vs shooting from the anvil. The warpfire thrower eats dwarf units for breakfast, the problem is not-getting-it shot. You'll have to hold it back, hide it behind your lines until the tunnelteams, stormbanner and plaguepriest have done their job. Any of your units get stuck vs an oathstone, move it up and start ploughing their ranks away. ![]() Much of my anti-dwarf tactics rely on the teleported plague priest... If you don't have the seer you can't do this, and this in effect renders the warpfire useless as the anvil will pick it off. I don't find champions in tunneler units particularly useful, challenged characters are still stubborn on LD9, my unit is dying when it hits a master engineer or a runesmith hanging around with the crew. Throw everything you've got at the regular crew and you'll have stopped it from firing in his next turn. With any luck this will allow you to move a warplightning cannon to a position where it can fry the little bugger in your next shooting phase. Your magic and shooting has no real threats to take care of vs dwarfs, save the lone gyrocopter which you should get rid of in turn 1... Therefore, direct them against the dwarf shooting; magic vs quarrelers and thunderers, jezzails vs boltthrowers and other warmachines.That's all I've got for now. ![]() |
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| Bodacious | 10th March 2008 - 09:47 AM Post #39 |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Well, the advice against gunlines is usually to get a few tunneler units (keep 'em unit-size 5, poisoned hand weapons and with black skaven). Problem is, dwarf guncrews can buy so much buffs nowadays (engineer, master engineer, brace of pistols, warmachine runes) that even 7-9 poisoned WS4, S3 attacks aren't enough to get rid of them sometimes. Nonetheless, since you'll still have the charge, make sure you take 2 (if not 3) tunnelling teams against a gunline and make sure you target the organ guns or flame cannons first. Our own guns can help against gunlines too. Jezzails are almost as notorious for their long range as for their hitting power. A unit of 6-7 jezzails could severely damage or even get rid of organ guns and flame cannons in the first couple of turns. Make sure you take a unit and deploy them across the table from the unit/warmachine you want to destroy and set them up a deep into your deployment zone instead of straight at the 12" line. They've got a 36" range so you might as well use that to your advantage. Once they're done shooting up the thunderers and warmachines, they can help you out against their infantry blocks. Apart from jezzails and tunnelers, using the horde approach works as well. Even the most dedicated gunline can't make enough kills to stop a furry tide of 300+ models reaching their lines. March up there with a massive horde as fast as you can and swarm those dwarfthings with baits, flanks, rears and maybe even the odd rat ogre unit in between (make sure you protect them from shooting with slaves and terrain though). If you want to go with the magic heavy aproach, skitterleaping assassins (with warpstone stars), warlock engineers and even grey seers themselves can really enable you to cause serious havoc among enemy lines. Getting warpfried from the rear isn't as pleasant as it sounds, just make sure you kill the organ guns and other stuff that can target and kill your lone characters first. I don't have any real solutions against the goblin hewer and the anvil. The goblin hewer I don't have much experience with. From what I gathered, it can only be used in slayer armies, so check a book to see if it's actually legal for your opponent to field it. The anvil is a pretty much unstoppable monster of destruction. Even tunneling teams will have a hard time killing the runelord+guards while they're defending the anvil. You can try it anyway, if you don't have any better targets, but other than that I see no other way to destroy it than slamming a regular unit in the thing. Odds are your opponent is doing his best to protect it from getting charged anyway, which means you'll have to kill his longbeards/hammerers first anyway. Just ignore the thing and make sure you have good enough leadership to avoid panic from the casualties it causes. And last but not least, the skaven army is blessed to possess the ultimate weapon against gunlines: The Stormbanner. It has the potential of totally nuking a gunline for an entire game. Activate it at the start of your opponents first turn (or his second, depending on who gets the first turn) and make sure you don't roll 1's and 2's. This (almost) never fails. Your opponent will cry like a spanked snotling if you manage to pull this off the right way. With a little luck, he won't be playing gunlines again .If all of this fails there is always the social solution: Explain to your opponent (calmly) why you don't like playing against his list. If he's too thick to understand this (odds are that he might be, since he's playing a gunline after all), tell him that you're not going to play against him again until he makes a more sporting list. Nobody likes a cheesehead. |
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| Mutator | 10th March 2008 - 10:23 AM Post #40 |
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Retired fat dude
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IIRC the 'hewer can be fielded by a conventional dwarf army. The one perk of it being fielded by slayers is that slayers have no armour - so if any of those poisoned gutter runner hits and autowound, they wont be saving ![]() The anvil is a trickier proposition, but again, IIRC, it cant do anvilly stuff whilst engaged in combat - so either hope you stick around in the combat long enough to still be there his turn, or (ii), even harder, arrange to overrun onto it from another target, so you'll be fighting in your opponent's turn. BTW if your opponent fields Thorek's anvil, then always, always direct as many attacks as possible onto Kraggi-the-annoying-source-of-rerolls. Once he's gone at least there is the risk of the damn thing blowing up
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| Mostly harmless | |
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| Stregone | 13th March 2008 - 09:12 AM Post #41 |
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Clanrat
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thx for the help, I hate dwarfs! I have played against dwarfs loads of times, but NEVER won. not with my TK and not with my skaven. I'll try to use some of these tips next time
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| Oozy rat in a sanitary zoo | |
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| Skavenblight | 13th March 2008 - 09:27 AM Post #42 |
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Chieftain
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Yeah, the key to fighting gunlines of any kind is the stormbanner. For the the reason that there are several rather unimaginative empire, wood elf and dwarf players in my area I ALWAYS take it in a tournament Skaven list. The other thing with a skaven army is to use the terrain to your advantage, in one game I was able to get a combined clanat front and 3 rat ogre rear charge against a unit of Ironbreakers with a thane, who had some magc item so that they could roll their break test on one dice, they still broke. In the spirit of the above paragraph, don't expect to win a one-on-one combat with a unit of dwarves either. Make sure you have at least a flank charge, and if you can slip a unit of nightrunners around to the rear, a rear charge as well. My strategy against a dwarf gunline is hope to hell your Stormbanner lasts at least 2 of his turns, don't activate it until he is within range with his thunderers, organ gun, flame cannon and gyro copter (so his first turn if you went first, and his second if he went first) and combine as may charges on as many units as possible, there's no way that he's going to have ecessive numbers if he went a gunline route. Skavenblight |
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| The_Reckoning | 28th December 2008 - 04:58 AM Post #43 |
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Stormvermin
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It's an easy mistake to make - guys, look at what the Dwarf Slayer actually does. Assuming your hero has S4, t's effectively S6 vs. any Dwarf with T4. You may as well take a GW, or the Desolate Blade if you're relying on a shield. |
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| King Rat | 7th December 2010 - 08:52 PM Post #44 |
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Grey Seer
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One thing important in 8th Ed is focus fire your weapons Teams/ War machines and try to destroy units. With no more half points even 1 dwarf left alive allows the VP's for the unit. Its great tailoring lists to specifically fight Dwarves but what about Tourney lists? Are players going to take Night/Gutter Runners to a Tournament? The Storm Banner seems a good Item to use vs. Gun-lines of any type and I will definitely consider this in my Tourney lists. Queek & Storm Vermin, may also be worth a look if Special characters can be used. |
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8th Ed Win /Draw/ Loss Skaven 24/ 10/ 13 Runner up Club Championships 2014, 2012 2nd Place Blood on the Reich 2011, 3rd Place Devilcon 2011 | |
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You'll have to hold it back, hide it behind your lines until the tunnelteams, stormbanner and plaguepriest have done their job. Any of your units get stuck vs an oathstone, move it up and start ploughing their ranks away.
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