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good killing unit?; or not?
Topic Started: 2nd September 2004 - 04:43 PM (411 Views)
Saint Anger
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Holiest Of Angered Furriness
i noticed that there are several advocates for the theory of no magic item warlords, having thought about this a little i have come up with an interesting idea.
if you had a unit of 30 stormvermin (6 per rank, 5 ranks) it would be a fairly tough unit, however if i then added to this a warlord with heavy armour, great weapon, and the warpstone amulet, as well as a BSB with the sacred standard, and a chieftain with heavy armour and a great weapon, then the unit would be nigh on unstoppable, as even if all the rats failed to kill anything (not likely but you never know) then assuming they still outnumbered the opponents unit, then they would automatically win the combat (which hopefully they should anyway). Is this a good tactic for stormvermin, or should i use different combinations instead?

EDIT: having done some maths i've worked out that the unit (including the charactors) cost 602 points, which translates as 64 stormvermin with full command
singthescreams
 
anger continues ranting about the desecration of his tomb, his fancy sword, and the cost of crude oil
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Rakk RazorTongue
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That does sound like a fun regiment to roam around with but do consider one thing.. That thing will cost one Helluvalot of points!

But just in terms of killing then it's almost as good as it can get. ^^
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Raticus
Stormvermin
I would be a little worried about having 3 characters in one unit. If for some reason that unit panics and flees, you may be in a bit of trouble. 64 Stromvermin would be an impressive unit to see! :D

I would put the BSB in the stormvermin unit, but no other characters. I think a huge unit of stormvermin is a definate warmachine/magic magnet. Back it up with some large units of clanrats and/or slaves.
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tate1307
Chieftain
I would just as soon use clanrats instead of SV, toss in a warlord and BSB with the SSotHR and autobreak anyone for cheaper. Go 5 wide and 6 deep, full command, plus the warlord (warpstone armor, enchanted shield, and desolate blade) and BSB (hvy, SSotHR) would be about 489 points.
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Saint Anger
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yeah, but as raticus said, 64 storm vermin *drools*

*auctions kidney and lung on e-bay*
singthescreams
 
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Kraven Tailblade
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One flank charge by a decent combat unit will crush them. Your characters won't be able to fight and you'll lose your rank/LD bonus.

You do not automatically win the combat just because you outnumber & cause fear.

If you win the combat and outnumber/cause fear, you auto-break the enemy.

See the difference?
You have that rule a little confused. Hope this helps.
Warlord Kraven Tailblade
" Life is cheap. Yours is worthless. "

May the Great Horned One bless you!!
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phordicus
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Battlemaster of Clan Skrikkik

this is another case of uberunit-itis. expensive, unwieldy, and one bad dice roll and 30% of your army is gone. the rest of your army is smaller, which means it's easier for the opponent to either avoid this unit, making it impotent, or concentrate on it, making it dead. field it at your own risk.
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Stinkhair
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Dabbling GM. Clanrat loon. 6th Edition Aficionado. Bitter.

what about some large units of NR's on the flanks/rear, and slaves in the front? that's keep em safe alright generals ld as well...... inspiring bravery in the runners and slaves.....
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Kraven Tailblade
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Rat Swarms will protect them, NR won't .
WHY?
NR are skirmishers,so no ranks, no standard/musician either. No armor.
When the enemy charges, the skirmishers align themselves to the charger. So it will be easy for him to set up a flank charge on the main unit. He'll beat the NR,if they flee,he'll hit the flank of the main unit.
Now your main unit must hold and receive the charge ,they can't flee. You'll probably lose that combat too.
Warlord Kraven Tailblade
" Life is cheap. Yours is worthless. "

May the Great Horned One bless you!!
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Stinkhair
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Dabbling GM. Clanrat loon. 6th Edition Aficionado. Bitter.

but the main point of night runners was that they charge the enemy unit, not enemy charge the runners, and with Ld7 they wouldn't be that bad (consider there's also a BSB, so reroll failed breaks...) and while the runners are getting slaughtered, the big hairy combat unit wheels round and gets ready to fight, and this is 30 SV with BSB, and a fairly hefty warlord, against most opponents they're going to have outnumber, 3 ranks, standard (technically, the SV could take warbanner as well.....so another +1) and an unmodified Ld of 7.... so they'll have at LEAST 6 CR before they begin the fighting, consider these are stormvermin, they are unlikely to die that fast, even if the SV lose a combat, they have a Ld of 10, fail that and they get another chance, fail that and you are a very unlucky rat...... a mighty expensive unit though, and i wouldn't take it myself, as it's to Uber-unit tactics, i'm sticking my warlord and BSB in a unit of clannies with BotS or warbanner so they still get the 6 basic CR but for less points.....

the big bonus is that i only need lose 3 rats and not inflic any wounds and the combat is lost, it's a lot harder to kill three stormvermin, with their higher Ws and better armour save, and the chances of hurting something on the other side with SV is also higher........

making this unit one tough cookie...... (and one big splat when that orc rock-lobba hits it slap-bang in the middle.....)
Posted ImageI've flown with pirates twixt the stars of New Eden,
Fought across Lordran, slain dragon and daemon,
Wandered the Wastelands - the East and the West,
But U E dot net's what I like the best.
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Saint Anger
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Holiest Of Angered Furriness
Quote:
 
You do not automatically win the combat just because you outnumber & cause fear.

If you win the combat and outnumber/cause fear, you auto-break the enemy.

See the difference?
You have that rule a little confused. Hope this helps.


thanks for explaining that to me, i didnt realised, though i'm probably never going to be able to use that kind of unit, as i said earlier, i'd have to auction body parts on e-bay
singthescreams
 
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Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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Bunny ear says flop

A 4-pack great giant rat unit in some-ones flank... actually two would already do the trick, cause many people overlook these units so often!

Greetz
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Kraven Tailblade
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Warlord Stinkhair:
If you can pull that off,Great,it will probably work. But if something goes wrong,you are in trouble.
NR vs. a ranked up unit with decent armor is in for a hard fight,even if they get the charge. Let's say a unit of 12 NR vs. 20 Dwarf warriors(WS4 T4 3+ armor). They'll have +3 ranks, +1 outnumber,+1 standard. Let's say you do 1 more wound than the enemy. You are still at -4 CR . Even wih a reroll you probably won't stay. LD7 -4R, you must roll 3 or less and you get a reroll. When they flee,the enemy will pursue and probably move out of your charge arc/LOS.

If you can charge both units in the same turn ,thats a whole different story.
It will be much in your favor.

Thats why rat swarm are so great. They always stick around.
Warlord Kraven Tailblade
" Life is cheap. Yours is worthless. "

May the Great Horned One bless you!!
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Stinkhair
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Dabbling GM. Clanrat loon. 6th Edition Aficionado. Bitter.

hnn, too true, maybe a big unit of slaves on one flank and swarms on the other... but really, with a unit like that, it's not going to worry you if the warriors run out of your AoS because the runners will have done their job and kept an enemy unit away from the flanks of the stormvermin, the second runners unit could do the same (hopefully) on the other flanks with a new unit, or stall the enemy if they attempt to get a rear charge. meanwhile, the unit is zipping around the battlefield at 10" every turn, mashing everything in front of it.......

but i don't use em anyways, a skaven uber-regiment of doom is just not in character, whereas a skaven verminghorde swarming over the battlefield is...
Posted ImageI've flown with pirates twixt the stars of New Eden,
Fought across Lordran, slain dragon and daemon,
Wandered the Wastelands - the East and the West,
But U E dot net's what I like the best.
Posted Image
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Kraven Tailblade
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Warlord Stinkhair:
Ok.Now I get you.

Hey is that Sea Bean Or Sean Bean(Boromir LotR)?
Warlord Kraven Tailblade
" Life is cheap. Yours is worthless. "

May the Great Horned One bless you!!
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