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Rats against the Vile Lizards; Anyone got a nice tactic?
Topic Started: 18th August 2004 - 10:45 AM (681 Views)
Rakk RazorTongue
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This is an ordinary 2000 points pitched battle that's going to be played.
I'm thinking of a heavy fire army since that Lizardmen often don't have that many troops in their retinue and the ones they have are big and bad.. =/

So i was thinking of a few Jezzails (9-12?) together with at least one WLC and a pair of twins for the Destructive heavy hittyness.
One thing that's on my mind though is if i should include Ratlings or WFT's for my ordinary regiments.. Can't decide. =/

oh, and if anyone got a good tactic for facing Heavy Hitters and potentionally Heavy magic that the reptiles got i'd be glad to hear it. =)

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Thrask Vilepaw
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The Grim Squeaker

Rakk RazorTongue
Aug 18 2004, 05:45 AM
a pair of twins for the Destructive heavy hittyness.

twins? i dont think ive seen them before, and take both warp fire throwers and ratling guns as ther are bothe great.
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Thrask, for being such a nice squiggly thing!
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Rakk RazorTongue
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oh, well i meant two Engineers. All these terms.. :rolleyes:

hm.. Maybe i'll add a somewhat large unit of Night runners too as protection against scouty Skinks. =/
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Stinkhair
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four weapon teams in 2000 points?
the cry of cheese shalt ring out across the battlefield...
what are the twins?
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phordicus
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twins = the typical two warlocks in many skaven armies with one almost always having storm-daemon + dispel scroll, and the other warpscroll + death globes.

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Rakk RazorTongue
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geez, ok. Scratch two teams then. Leaves me with a mere puny two weapon teams against the scaly ones. :(
Considering having the ordinary twins though one of the Engineers will have one d.scroll instead of the warpscroll. Can't see much use for the scroll here.. =/
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Rattsu
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Well, whaddya know *grins* I've got a pair of twins in Molltov and Tessla myself *laughs*

But... Lizard tactics:

I'm gathering from the worries about magic that he uses a toad, right? Is it in a templeguard unit? Or does he simply do the standard saurus block setups supported by skinks?

You seem to be used to using a shooty skaven army, ever tried just punching the lizards in the nose?

If he goes toad/shaman heavy that might be worth trying. I mean face it, with heavens magic your weapon teams/jezzails are going to be smoking craters soon, unless you overload on dispel scrolls.


The typical lizardkiller unit would be: 30+ stormvermin (if you have them) or clanrats with handweapon and shield. Add a kitted warlord, probably with blade of black fury or the desolate blade since they seldom have that good armoursaves and some protective gear, then add a BsB with the banner of the horned rat in the rear. The trick is to get the charge, you will outnumber and possibly have a rank more, if your warlord doesn't screw up he will kill a few lizards, as might your clanrats. All you have to do is to get 1 more in combat resolution and they will run like... well... rats *grins* thanks to being outnumbered by a fear causing unit. Since they have such a low initiative you will strike first the next turn as well, in case you botch the first one, and thus will have a second go.

Just don't get charged and this unit can take out that nasty fat Slann perched in the massive evil unit of doom...

Meanwhile, your normal clanrats with maybe two ratlingguns will gard your flanks. Rat swarms also does a sterling job at that, poisin might be a good idea if he likes fielding big mosnters and stegadons. The trick is keeping your army bunched together to take advantage of your wonderful leadership and army banner, and to avoid having your best unit flanked. Just add what you feel like fighting with and you can't go very wrong.

One thing might be to just take one engineer with a gun and two dispell scrolls to eather the worst magic (you should be in HtH soon) and add an assassin as the fourth hero. He can give a nasty surprise/punch to any unit you want, or be sneaky/running with shooty protection to take out salamanders. But, it's always nasty being a skirmisher against skinks.
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Rakk RazorTongue
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My final force was composed of far too many jezzails (a unit of nine and a unit of 5) 'cause i -really- don't like the look of them big monsters but alas, he didn't use any! Only good they made was to protect a flank and slaughter a 20 strong unit of Saurus.
And for the right flank i used a Tortoise tactic with slaves standing ahead as potentional protection for bolts/magic missiles. Completely unneccessary as he didn't include neither a Slann nor anything that shoots 'cept for them speedy skinks.
My two mages that were used had the positive effect of getting a very astonishing amount of 11's and 12's for hits with my WL that combined with a Storm Daemon and an opponent that dispelled -two- spells in the entire game made it quite fun. =)

The sad part was when he got in closecombat as i had relied far too much on my shooting prowess.. May the horned rat devour that nasty Old Lizard for having 8 freakin' attacks. -_-
Though all in all my army did kinda decent as he only got a minor victory despite breaking through my lines as fast as he reached them. Managed to rally almost all my units though. (bless those fast runners, i never got anything beneath 10" when fleeing.. :P)

Fun game though. =)
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gorod
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The Burninator (middenheim faction)
A great tip I find is never engaged saurus in the front, no matter what!

Also, sneaking PCB's behind his line after breaking through his unit of Krox is really nice.

although this requires disgusting amounts of luck and just bad-general ship on the other side of the table... :)
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Deathblane
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LOL, I absolutely annihilated a Lizard army recently. 4 units of 25 clanrats along with 20 slaves, 10 Jezzails, 10 Gutter Runners, 4 Rat Ogres a WLC, a Warlock, a BSB (banner of the swarm) and a Warlord. Oh and 4 Rattling guns :D. I basically decimated his units at range then took the charge. The trick is to make your unit's last the charge. Then the flank charge from the attached Ogres decimates the opposition ;). Funny thing is, I used almost exactly the same army (I traded the WLC and the Gutter Runners for 4 Rat Swarms and a 2nd Warlock) against a Chaos Nurgle army. Almost exactly the same deployment and I annihilated them as well.
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SingTheScreams
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if he takes a toad,
chieftain with brass orb, run him behind the lines. watch out for skinks and salamanders, maybe stick him in a GR unit to be safe. with initiative 2, that slaan should be toast.

gutter runners to kill skinks
clannies backed up by weapon teams, jezzails, twins take out the rest of his army (any more then three teams is cheese, three is pushing it...). swarms to tie up stegadons or salamanders. poison if you have the points. they can take out skinks in a chinch.

dont bother with rat ogres, krozigors have s7 and ws4 to your s5 ws3.
giant rats make good flankers, as always. good for distracting salamanders, too.
night runners are cheaper than GRs and almost as effective skink killers
plague monks sometimes crash and burn but can be useful against saurus, especially with their PCB buddies
jezzails are okay but heavens make them dead quickly
i hate the WLC for no good reason. i personally wouldnt take it.

twins equipment:
storm daemon, warpstone charm
2x dispel scrolls [/sage]
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no need to worry for soul, instead starts worshipping STS and slaughtering unbelievers in his holy name.
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SingTheScreams
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Call me Sings

Deathblane
Aug 22 2004, 08:29 PM
Oh and 4 Rattling guns

this is commonly called cheese (sry for double post)
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arqueek
 
no need to worry for soul, instead starts worshipping STS and slaughtering unbelievers in his holy name.
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Rakk RazorTongue
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SingTheScreams
Aug 22 2004, 11:40 PM
gutter runners to kill skinks

I'm sorry to say this but those gutterrunners are soo -screwed- of they go up against Skinks. Have you ever face a unit of 10 skinks that doesn't get to shoot you at least once before you can charge them?

They have a moving range of 12" and their weapons have a reach of 8", thus they get to shoot at practically everything before dying and with 2 shots á skink that -really- hurts. -_-
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
skinks can't multishot the gutter runners from long range and get poison though, same goes for if they're stand and shooting

gutter runners own skinks if used properly, but then again, so do night runners. Just watch out for salamanders that are as disgusting to play against as ratling guns.
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Rakk RazorTongue
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You're saying that the skinks can't use their multishot on long range..? o_O

hrmph.. cost me two nightrunner regiments not knowing that. -_-

ah, i have no need to worry about the colourful lil' salamander. My opponent consider them completely worthless. =P
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