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Spears in Clanrat units; Is it worth it?
Topic Started: 9th July 2004 - 10:11 AM (566 Views)
Master Kree
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I think spears usually are great, espescially in larger units with weaker models. That sounds good for skaven but I think equipping 25 clanrats or even 30 would be a bit expensive. I mean for 30pts you get another Giant Rat Pack. What does the more experienced skaven players say?
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Skaskrit Venomclaw
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Ex-Councilrat

Here is a link to another thread about this subject.

I personally use spears a lot. It's simple, really. With the spears my clanrats frequently win fights against average opposing infantry units that they would loose without the spears. And yes, if I didn't include them I could field another weapon team, but I still think it's worth it. And besides, spears look much nicer than those boring swords.
"I have a post-Armageddon vision. We and all other large animals are gone. Rodents emerge as the ultimate post-human scavengers. They gnaw their way through New York, London and Tokyo... within 5 million years, a whole range of new species replace the ones we know. Herds of giant grazing rats are stalked by sabre-toothed predatory rats. Given enough time, will a species of intelligent, cultivated rats emerge?"

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Master Kree
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Oh, thanks.
Well they had a few pro to spears and cons..
But since the only army list I'm concerned with right now is a border patrol. I think I want to save the pts and skip spears.
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Raticus
Stormvermin
I do a mix.
I have 20 CR with hand weapon and shields, and 20 CR with spears and shields.

This way I can field them both.
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Grey Seer Velqueet
Verminfriend
I personally don't find them worth it. 9 times ot of 10 I am the one chaging due to higher movement and spears are not cheap. I do think they look cool with spears though so I wish I liked them tactically!
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Skaskrit Venomclaw
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Ex-Councilrat

True, Clanrats charge more often than not... but they seldom win in the first round. Second round you strike first with 12 attacks. (My units are 6 wide.)

Besides, quite often I'd rather be charged, since that makes a countercharge in the flank far easier.

Oh, and spears are a great excuse for when I misjudge a range and my Clanrats are accidentally charged by the enemy. "I meant to do that, of course! That way my rats can use their spears!"
"I have a post-Armageddon vision. We and all other large animals are gone. Rodents emerge as the ultimate post-human scavengers. They gnaw their way through New York, London and Tokyo... within 5 million years, a whole range of new species replace the ones we know. Herds of giant grazing rats are stalked by sabre-toothed predatory rats. Given enough time, will a species of intelligent, cultivated rats emerge?"

Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale
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BorgtheSmall
Chieftain
Haha! Too true about the failed charge....

I will have to use that line sometime
ck
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typo
Grey Seer
well, clanrats arent known for their killing prowess, but usually rely on CR through banners, outnumbering... etc. Spears are good to tip the balance but do become quite pricey especially when a weapon team is involved. I tend to use 1:1 ratio with spears and Hand weapons.
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whiteclone
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Clan Kynix Warmonger
The reason I don't use spears is a battle tendency that I've developed. Without spears, you have an increased armor save, by that amazing one, for a 4+. This means that because Skaven mostly always charge and get first strikes that I may be losing some effectiveness, but because of enemy attacks after, I keep the tables more even by having some defence that the spears wouldn't allow me. If I play LARGE games, then I take one spear unit : two sword units. This allows me to flank charge with spears and thats just something I love doing when they're engaged at the front with a 'heavily' armored unit with swords/shields.
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strkeetdot
Chieftian Clan Mataio

I'll take one CR unit with spears so I have flexability in battle. On the charge they use hw/shield for the armor save bonus and if they are charges they will receive it with spears for the extra rank of attacks. I have been thinking about a 40 strong slave w/ spears unit, they would most likley last 2 rounds of combat and get the 2nd rank of attacks in round 2 :ph43r:
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gorod
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The Burninator (middenheim faction)
I have something against raising the cost of slaves by 150%

anyway, I also have one unit w/ spears and one w/o, It's great if you position your spears behind a slave unit, the slaves'll break (naturally) and the enemy will hopefully overrun into your spear rats, then you can flank charge them with your hw/s rats who're positioned right next to your spear rats, so you're getting off 18 +champ(s) attacks (I also have mine 6 wide) + the normal combat res bonuses, it's pretty sweet... provided the opponent goes for the bait.
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Warlord Kritslik
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I think spears is a bad idea on clanrats and slaves. They benefit much more from a 4+ armour save, and they are not very capable of cause wounds anyway, even with extra attacks. That and the extra cost....
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Rattsu
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whiteclone
Jul 19 2004, 12:41 AM
The reason I don't use spears is a battle tendency that I've developed. Without spears, you have an increased armor save, by that amazing one, for a 4+. This means that because Skaven mostly always charge and get first strikes that I may be losing some effectiveness, but because of enemy attacks after, I keep the tables more even by having some defence that the spears wouldn't allow me. If I play LARGE games, then I take one spear unit : two sword units. This allows me to flank charge with spears and thats just something I love doing when they're engaged at the front with a 'heavily' armored unit with swords/shields.

You could have described my tactic there... *grins* Always get the charge.

I also use 1/3 units with spears, but they come into their own mostly when I play goblins and undead.

But honestly, even then I elect to use the handweapon/shield combo most the time, so I guess I might remodel them if it wren't for the fact that it looks neat.

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Verminous Fang
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I have found that the extra attacks are more useful than the hw+shield combo for infantry (it's been mathematically proven, and the thread should be in here somewhere).

Anyways, I am now using a unit without spears (in addition to the 2 with) to see how it works in practice.
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Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

I always give them spears, coz even then you can choose to use hand weapons and shields instead. I never give spears to slaves though...
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