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First Skaven army, need help; Just bought my first Skaven army and need help with pretty much everything.
Topic Started: 2nd February 2017 - 02:44 PM (876 Views)
uzo70
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Hey everyone, i finally went ahead with the release of the Spire of dawn /Island of blood and buyed a set, but i havn't painted a warhammer miniature in almost 8 years and even back then i don't think i painted more than 3. So what better place for advice on painting skaven than The Under-Empire itself!

I am a bit all over the place right now, i am propably overthinking it all, so i hope you are willing to bare over with me.
I know which colour scheme i want them in and that being Clan Mors (also got a Queek Headtaker) i have looked alot into the Uniforms and Heraldy of the Skaven book for help with the colours and symbols.

Pictures from book
1st: http://imgur.com/gCQTehn
2nd: http://imgur.com/torql3K
3rd: http://imgur.com/xjftuFW
4th: http://imgur.com/8j6DEz0

there is alot of colour variations in their armour but the shade that i think i like the most is the red of the Warlord in the first image, i have thought about maybe a little darker like the armour of the clanrat holding the raling gun on the 2nd image, but that is where i am also afraid that the red cloth might be too close and they will just mush together from any kind of distance, i also am not sure wether to have the red cloth be a brighter red or a darker one(do think i am leaning to darker though) and for the "white" shade i am looking at the bottom right clan rat in the 1st picture, maybe ever so slightly more tan, but more importantly which actually colours to use to get those shades, which leads to one of the big questions i have in this, which paint manufactor to use, i have spent the last 2 days just looking up about the paints and trying to watch youtube videos where they use certain paints in, but mostl use Citadel so i use the Dakkadakka conversion chart https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart to try and see what the colours they would be from other manufactorers, i know it is only an approximates and they vary how similar they are, and i have good things about the paints of P3 and Reaper series, but i think P3 is pretty much out just because of the lack of colour pallet, though i have heard Coat D'arms and especially Vallejo Game Colour should almost match perfectly with the old citadel line.

On Vallejo, i have heard and read on their official site that alot of their red paints contain Cadmium, which i am not really excited about, but also not sure of much of danger it is, hopefully someone with my experiance than me could enlighten me.
Also whenever Vallejo is mentioned it comes down to Games Colour or Model Colour, sometime including Air colour. I really like the idea of Games Colour line as it is made to be almost exactly like the old Citadel line, but also read people saying the colours are brigter than the citadel ones? and also more Satin/glossy while Model is more matte, i really don't want a glossy look to my models and i can't really find a comparison where anyone shows a Game colour next to Model colour to see the diffrence .
Also some say Game colour is less prone to be rubbed off, but then the next post or video one wil say model is less prone to it and the same about and same about paint splitting and you really need to shake this bottles.

Getting back to the main question, i need help with selecting if possible a cheaper paint range than Citadel, but with atleast somewhat comparable colours so that i can select similar paints to the Citadel colours i have actually seen and i guess atleast somewhat available in Denmark.

These are the colours scheme i have thought about(in citadel colours), still very much up in the air.

Fur: Mournfang Brown/Calthan Bron or Mournfang Brown/Bestial Brown.
In the comparison chart it has 2 of them so i am not sure which one it was i saw.

Flesh: Ratskin Flesh/Dwarf Flesh.

Armour: scab red/Khorne red or Redgore/Wazdakka.

Red Cloth: Mechrite red/Mephiston red or Scab red/Khone red.

White cloth: Dheneb Stone
I don't want something bright white and Dheneb stone has a nice darker colour to it without getting into any heavy gray, would maybe want it ever so slighty more tan, but the closest thing to it seems to bed Ushabti Bone/Bleached bone, which is alot more tan.

Black Cloth: Abaddon Black/Chaos Black.

Metal: Vallejo Model Air, Gun
I saw this one and just loved the effect it gave.

Brass/copper pieces: Vallejo Brassy Brass
Didn't really look good on its own, but looked really good after heavy wash of Devlan Mud, still very much interested in other suggestions for copper/brass parts.

Wash: I am expecting to give the whole model a cover in Warpaint Strong Tone ink, closest i saw to Devlan mud, of course highlighting parts afterwards.



I havn't mentioned any highlights as i feel it is best to get the base colours in place first so the highlights fit them. I am also very open to input about the colours, washes or anything really, you know more of how these actually look on the models and propably know of some good colours i havn't even seen or considered.

I really don't know if there is some of these paints that act or actually look diffrent than i might think, i thought about the Doombull Brown/Dark Felsh as it looked like a very nice Dark red, but when i actually found a video it was very far from red, and very brown, i guess the name don't lie.
That is another reason for this post, i simply don't have really any experiance or hands on knowledge in this, and i know some of you have multiple years of experiance and knowledge that you could hopefully share a little of.


Extra question: On the 4th picture with Fangsnappers claw pack, there is a Mors symbol up in the left corner, every special regiment in the book has a unique symbol in the top left corner, i thought it might be the regiment's personal symbol but it never matches their shield nor their banner in the artwork, is it just another mors symbol or is it in some way connected to the regiment?

I hope this wasn't too much all over the place in random question and assumptions.
Edited by uzo70, 2nd February 2017 - 02:49 PM.
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Royos
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Question on paints: I can't offer much advice here I'm afraid as I don't use Citadel or Vallejo. I use Jo Sonja Acrylics which are matte, good quality and better value than Citadel and Vallejo but I'm not sure if they are available in Denmark. If you can get hold of them then I recommend them, they are great to work with and leave a very durable bonded coat that won't wear.

Jo Sonjas

Extra Question: I think that symbol is the symbol for Fangsnapper's Clawpack, his private retinue but I could be wrong.

Anyway, others will probably jump on and give you better advice. But if you have any questions about painting I might be able to help.

All the best, you've got a lot of work ahead of you :D
Royhammer (Army Diary)
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red laser
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Army Builder paints are meant to be good. I know you want to go Clan Mors but there is a lot of diversity in having a multi Clan horde.
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uzo70
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Royos
3rd February 2017 - 10:42 AM
Question on paints: I can't offer much advice here I'm afraid as I don't use Citadel or Vallejo. I use Jo Sonja Acrylics which are matte, good quality and better value than Citadel and Vallejo but I'm not sure if they are available in Denmark. If you can get hold of them then I recommend them, they are great to work with and leave a very durable bonded coat that won't wear.

Jo Sonjas

Extra Question: I think that symbol is the symbol for Fangsnapper's Clawpack, his private retinue but I could be wrong.

Anyway, others will probably jump on and give you better advice. But if you have any questions about painting I might be able to help.

All the best, you've got a lot of work ahead of you :D




I tried to look around but to no luck, they don't even sell in Denmark :(


With Fangsnappers Clawpack, it is weird becausese non of them have it like that on their shield nor on the banners and Fang Snapper himself is in the picture too



I do have new question though, is it alot better to spray primer on than to paint it?
red laser
4th February 2017 - 08:51 AM
Army Builder paints are meant to be good. I know you want to go Clan Mors but there is a lot of diversity in having a multi Clan horde.
Army Painter just doesn't have the colour range that i need, but i do guess you make a good point in that i don't need to have all the paint from one place, just easier if i can order all my paints together so i only have to pay the shipping cost once

I did actually think about having a rabble of diffrent clans, but after more thought i knew i wanted to united colour scheme and that it should be Mors :)
Edited by uzo70, 4th February 2017 - 06:28 PM.
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red laser
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Spray it on but like all sprays needs touching up by hand
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Royos
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I spray the primer on. I think it's easier and also you get a nice even coat.

I've tried a lot of primers and I've settled on this one: "plastic soldier". It 's very smelly but very high quality. Very thin so it doesn't clog up detail, and gives a good strong adhesive coat all over. They come in a small range of colours, I use the brown mostly but the green and the mustard are also good.

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I agree that it's good to have a unified colour scheme. I have one colour that goes across every unit and that's purple, but each unit might have different colours as well. For example my stronger units have red in them and my weaker units have gray, the plague monks are green and the characters are all different but everyone has a hint of purple on them somewhere to unify them as one clan. I think too much unifying can be bad though, you need some individuality in the units. If you go black and red for everything then your army will end up looking all the same and that's a little boring. But I'm sure you already know that anyway. :lol:

Also - with the Mors symbol. If you like the sign but you're not sure what it stands for, then you could always just adopt it and change it a little bit to suit your own clan. That way you're not using the symbol incorrectly, you're just using a symbol that is similar. Just an idea.
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Edited by Royos, 5th February 2017 - 10:07 AM.
Royhammer (Army Diary)
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red laser
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I tend to just do the Horned Rat insignia on my banners it is easier to do depending on the size of the surface.
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uzo70
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Well i think i will go with a spray primer then and check if the Plastic Soldier spray is sold anywhere near me :)



For the colours on the units i will use a nice solid red on the armour, then have white, black and very dark red like a mahogany red for the cloth parts, so they are the 3 colours that will be switched up, but the constant is the red armour :)

The Mors symbol is pretty easy to make, i am just wondering how any of you manage to make the tiny triangle patterns :P




Edited by uzo70, 6th February 2017 - 12:42 PM.
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red laser
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Broad strokes just leave enough space so the inside is clear it is the same as doing the Horned Rat. If you do fill in the triangle paint it over in the background colour until the triangle looks thin enough. I equate writing in skaven to oriental writing if that helps.
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Royos
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One way you can do it is like this:

1. Paint the shield a base colour, for example: black.

2. Then paint a fat triangle onto the shield with solid red.

3. Now paint black around the triangle, making the triangle smaller and smaller.

So, you're not painting a small triangle. You paint a big triangle and then use the black to make it smaller. Sometimes it's easier that way. This is just a suggestion for you to try. :D

Nice colour scheme, sounds aggressive.
Royhammer (Army Diary)
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uzo70
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I will definitely try out those techniques and see what results i get :)


I also might have increased my workload by a fair bit, there was an offer that i just couldn't refuse that popped up, short story i now have an additional:

Screaming bell/plauge furnace still on sprue

Warp lightning cannon glued but not painted

40stormvermin all but one fangleader still on sprue

40Clan rats, 20 of which are painted

5plauge monks

2 Rat ogres still on sprue

3 Pack masters still on sprue

and i think 6-7 gaint rants still on sprue


I do intent on trying to magnetizing the screaming bell/plauge furnace.

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Royos
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Geeze Louise! Youre army has grown!

Well, looks like you'll have your hands full painting that lot for a while.
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red laser
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uzo70
11th February 2017 - 09:48 AM
I will definitely try out those techniques and see what results i get :)


I also might have increased my workload by a fair bit, there was an offer that i just couldn't refuse that popped up, short story i now have an additional:

Screaming bell/plauge furnace still on sprue

Warp lightning cannon glued but not painted

40stormvermin all but one fangleader still on sprue

40Clan rats, 20 of which are painted

5plauge monks

2 Rat ogres still on sprue

3 Pack masters still on sprue

and i think 6-7 gaint rants still on sprue


I do intent on trying to magnetizing the screaming bell/plauge furnace.

Reminds me of how I started out the 8th edition Skaven padded out my army that and two Skaven battalion box sets. That is an awesome start to your horde.
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uzo70
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So i got my the box today with the army i buyed and it wasn't actually as descriped on ebay, but it is actually not a bad thing believe it or not.
Instead of 40 Stormvermin it is only 37 so yeah not a big deal, but instead of the 40 clanrats it is actually 58! and instead of 5 plauge monks it is 17 :D , so i would say that is a pretty okay trade for 3 stormvermin.

In addition to that because of all the extra sprues with plauge monks i got bunch of extra of small rats that come with the plauge monks sprues, 4 sprues in total meaning 20 small rats, and then plus the giant rats that come with the rat ogres in the box which is 6 and if i manage to get my old unopened Rat ogre set from my cousins that is an aditional 6, which all in all would be 32 rats, now i my question is should i make them all into Giant Rats or Rat swarms? and if Rat Swarms what would be the minimum of rats on each plate for it to be taken as a Rat swarm?


a second question would be, 20 of the ones i got are painted (18 clanrats and 2 stormvermin), what should i use to rid the paint of them without damaging the model underneath?



But the current state of my army is:

98 clanrats (which i might try and get a unit of slave rats out of, would 30 be enough?)

37 Stormvermin

6 Rat Ogres

12 Giant Rats

20 small Rats

6 Pack Masters

17 Plauge Monks

1 Poison Wind Wortar

1 Warp fire thrower

1 Screaming bell/Plauge Furnace
(will try to magnetize)

1 Warp lightning cannon (it is glued but i will propably try and cut it off with a thin blade and magnetize it as well so i can have a plauge claw as well)

1 Warlord

1 Queek Headtaker

1 Warplock Engineer



All in all i have payed 185usd for it all including shipping, but i havn't sold the High Elf part of the Spire of Dawn set yet.



I will most likely need alot of help through the project so i hope it is okay that i pester all of you with a bunch of questions every now and then :)




Edited by uzo70, 13th February 2017 - 09:52 PM.
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red laser
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I put my rats on individual bases from the Skaven Battalion boxed sets.
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