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Celtic v AC Milan; Paradise , Champions League
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 12:19 PM (325 Views)
Caesar
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Right then , perfectly straight forward no room for misunderstanding - 3 points

So with that in mind to acheive that - penetration = goals for , no defensive frailties = no goals against

Very simplistic of course but essentially true but when we are dealing human mindset then who knows

Will Samaras perform as he can in CL .... will Derk produce his Ajax form ... will Efe repeat his Juventus performance .... will Stokes repeat his Karagandy assist

Derk on one wing Forrest on the other ? ...... speed with an end product which is a goal scoring chance but that would leave only room for Commons & an other in the middle Forrest can/does track but Derk ? ... Derk on the left wing ? so Sami through the middle .... so no Pukki I,d say but Sami & Stokes ? .....

3 natural midfielders which would be Commons , Ledley & Chico ( yes there is debate over Mulgrew being a " natural " midfielder ) with Forrest & Derk out wide in a 5 man midfield which would leave one place up front which is filled by Samaras or Stokes

Forrest is pronounced fit but is his mindset ok for tonight given his off field situation ?

Milan have a number of players out & their domestic form is poor but nobody will be fooled by this ...... so on paper its got a dreary goalless draw written all over it but thankfully as Tommy Docherty or some other wag said - football isnt played on paper

Result ? ..... havent got a scooby :shrug:
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Caesar
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Celtic starting XI:

Forster, Lustig, Ambrose, Van Dijk, Izaguirre, Forrest, Kayal, Mulgrew, Boerrigter, Commons, Samaras.




Celtic subs: Zaluska, Ledley, Stokes, Balde, Rogic, Pukki, Fisher.
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desachi
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Our European campaign summed up perfectly in 90 minutes.

Silly defensive mistakes, no teeth up front, poor use of the ball and a lack of discipline giving exactly what we deserved, nothing. Sounds harsh maybe, but that is what it comes down to. Unlike the team, the supporters have been round the block a few times on the European stage and we all know if you make stupid mistakes then you get punished, and if you want to be successful, you have to know how to keep the ball.

This Milan team are nothing special, and neither are Ajax. We are seeded fourth in the group, which is fine, but this is all about the small things. There were four players who looked like they belonged on this stage tonight, Samaras, Van Dijk, Ambrose and the stand out by far, Lustig. I felt for Samaras, he ran his socks off, held up the ball and brought others into play but there was nothing in terms of support coming from anyone else in the forward areas. Added to that, he was marked by a player who can actually defend, a superb duel with Bonera. :clap:

I am having a real problem with Forster at the moment and the command of his area, all three goals had that about them. The first should have been his ball, though the marking was atrocious, the second should have been his when the cross came in before the corner, and the third had him allowing Balotelli too much of the goal on view.

This whole thing is a learning curve for both the players and management, this is the second CL campaign for this squad and they will just have to take it on the chin and build on things for next year. The consolation for the board will be money banked, and plenty of it, 3 nights of a packed stadium and a wee bit of buzz about the place yet again. None of that will be any consolation to the non money people but the message is loud and clear, the squad needs more experienced heads at this level if the team is to compete properly, and they cost money. Spend something on a known quantity and perhaps things will change. :pray:

Perhaps a wee bit of vision will help the club keep its better players and its young manager as well.

Out of Europe in November thanks to plenty of defensive mistakes and lack of investment in the playing squad. Sounds a lot like the 90s to me. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Heads up Celtic, there is still a double at stake. :ynwa:
In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing

HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC

Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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pye266
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But how can you start a must game win with no strikers.... :wallbash: :wallbash:

f-ing gutted, lost to worst Ajax team i have ever seen, and worst Milan team in well ever... :wallbash:
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irishmaninporto
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Ok been thinking and thinking about this after watching this campaign together with the league games (when either SportV here in Portugal or I can get a half decent stream ... sidenote is Celtic TV any good ? do they stream all the games ? ))

Ok we can go on about the fact that Hooper and Vic have left and were not replaced .. they have gone .. what is important is who we have available and how well we use them.

Ok training .. First thing I think that this campaign has showed is that the movement awareness and composure of our players is pretty dire ... Dirk , Virgil and Charlie last night ... Charlie in the home game v Barça ... the list goes on and on
now we have Strikers and attacking players who know where the net is .. so what happens ?? they freeze on the big occasion ? A lot of people laughed at Cadetes offer but .. think about it ... the two most important things in football are keeping the ball out of the net and putting it in ... We have Goalkeeper coaches .. so why not a Striker coach ?? If not Cadete how about Sutton ? Henke ? Hartson ? anyone who can improve on the training that they are receiving at the moment.

Big Dolph and Danny are in charge of sorting out the defence i believe ... so is the zonal marking their idea or is it Lennies ?? wasnt it Bob Paisly who said that Zones dont score goals ... Men do .. so therefore we should be picking up man for man ... how the hell did kaka get a free header where he didnt even have to outjump anyone ??

What exactly does Garry Parker offer ? what is his role ? is he the conditioning coach ? does he work on tactics ? or is he just a good bloke ?

Now to the players

Fraser has had his head turned after his all important one cap for Ingerland ... and is no doubt offski if not in January then at the end of the season ... so hopefully we will have someone lined up to replace him ... not sure if Forde is the answer .. at least we should get around 8-10 million for him ..

The centre backs are ok and if we can hold on to them both then we will be doing well .. Some complain about big Efe but he actually showed that Milan were scared when you ran at them ... unfortunately no one wass intelligent enough to runn off the ball make space and the attack was lost ... also you would hope that when he does go forward one of the midfielders would drop back and cover the position ... if Charlie has to play then that should be his job ... He is another who maybe has come to the end of the line ... because as a centre midfielder he is keeping ledley out ... Lennon will not play with both Ledley and Charlie (if he can avoid it .. Ledley came on because the other option Kayal went off injured) as they are both left footed which gives the midfield a uneven balance ... so is he better at centre half or left back ? Emilio is getting better and almost back to his best .. once more attacking and running at the fullbacks ... however defensively he is naive at times ... on the right we have no such problems with both Lustig and Matthews ... however please dont shoehorn them both in for the sake of it ... matthews is never a winger

Midfield we have options .. if our Captain can keep the stupid stuff to himself ... Biton , Kayal , Rogic , Ledley , Brown

Wing .. now here we have problems ... we can not get a decent cross in from either flank .. unless its from Izzy or Lustig ... Derk is just getting into the groove so he cant be judged just yet .. but Forrest .. ai ai ai .. I just can not see what he brings to the team .. ok he has scored one or two goals .. (the goal v Karagandy) but apart from that ?? he runs up so many blind alleys ... and if the reports are to be believed .. and he actually did what he is being accused of .. then unless he has a damn good excuse .. (having a slash outside and someone caught him .. for example) then he should be shipped ou asap .. can you imagine any player doing that with Big Jock or Caeser as the boss ??
Commons was always a left winger so how come all of a sudden he is the "playmaker" ??

Forwards ... The jury is still out on Pukki and Balde .. both of them have had little time and need a run of games .. Samaras and Stokes ... Sammy loves the club .. but this season he was double triple teamed .. but noone once again offered much support for him ... but he is also never in a million years gonna get you 20 goals a season .. another winger who cuts in ... then we have Tony ... I am happy that he is getting the chance to play for Ireland BUT .. again has come up woefully short in the big games ... Lenny always had doubts over his temperament and since he signed the new deal ... well he hasnt exactly set the place alight ...
Some are demanding Tony Watt to be recalled ... well he must have some problem .. i hear rumours (not being based over there cant say if they are true or not) but since his wonder goal v Barça was giving it the Billy Big Bollocks and thought he was too good .. his antics on loan have certainly given that some foundation. we also have Ras (is he still ours or did he finally go for good ?) who never got a chance (Mowbray signing who obviously Lenny didnt rate ) and Bangura .. who played reasonably well againt us but once more is the same mould as Stokes or Pukki (second striker)

Think we can all see that we need to refresh ideas and I would give the fringe players ... Pukki Balde Rogic etc a run of games and start them v Barça ... we are out .. we have to build for the future .. like it or not THEY are the future so lets give them the chance ... but we will probably go with the tried and trusted ... charlie replacing Izzy who is suspended ... Brown coming back in ... and hopefully not losing his head again .. Commons .. Sammy as lone striker with little or no support .. we will miss a few chances before Barça nick one then score another v a deflection ...

Jock Stein once said that the Celtic Jersey shouldnt shrink to fit any old player ... maybe someone put it in the tumble dryer ???? :shrug:

Rant over .. will sit in the corner ready to defend any criticism .... :P
Edited by irishmaninporto, Nov 27 2013, 11:52 PM.
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Wiggy
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Quote:
 

Uefa charge Celtic over banners

Disciplinary proceedings have been opened against Celtic for an incident of
"non-sporting nature" during the Champions League defeat by AC Milan.

Banners with a slogan depicted Scottish warrior William Wallace and Irish hunger
striker Bobby Sands.

The case will be dealt with by the Uefa Control and Disciplinary meeting on 11
December.

Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell described the banners as "nothing more than
clear disrespect for the club".

Celtic were previously fined by Uefa over a banner displayed during a Europa
League tie against Udinese in 2011.

A penalty was imposed for supporters setting off fireworks during a Champions
League qualifier this season.

Celtic have previously warned supporters in section 111 of the stadium, known to
house the Green Brigade, over their future conduct or face being relocated.

The Green Brigade is a self-styled "ultras" group of fans known for banner
displays and chanting and Celtic have made it "abundantly clear" that "only
football-related displays would be permitted and that any political display
would lead to a Uefa charge".

"There have now been a number of Uefa charges made against the club during the
last three years, relating to behaviour, displays and pyrotechnics - it cannot
go on any further," added Lawwell in a statement.

"Let's be very clear. Following the actions of a small minority, these charges
are made against the club. It is the reputation of Celtic, our great club and
our great fans which is damaged, while others carry on indulging in such
behaviour.

"Our supporters do not want this any more. We are a non-political organisation,
a top football club in fantastic shape, aiming to play its part as a major
football club on the European stage.

"Regardless of the political views people hold, football stadia, whether it is
Celtic Park or anywhere else, should not be used to promote these. This is
something which all football authorities, including Uefa, have stressed for some
time and something well known by all supporters.

"The club don't want it, our manager and our team don't want it, our supporters
don't want it and the football authorities don't want it - it has to stop."

Ajax were earlier this month fined £21,000 for fans displaying an offensive
banner at their Champions League against Celtic in Amsterdam.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707
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desachi
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Liked it all IIP. :thumb up:

As for zonal marking, I have no problem with it. It is true that zones don't score goals, players do, but then Jock Stein himself used it and defended it by saying that it didn't matter how many players you had marking, only one was needed to get the ball away. Besides, isn't marking a post zonal? I don't think the system is the problem, it is the desire to get the ball clear and that is helped an awful lot at set pieces by the keeper. Forster is a big boy and shouldn't worry about out jumping any player. Something he has to learn to help his defence out. They are, after all, his responsibility.

All that said, I think all good defending is about a mixture of zonal and man to man marking as there are always more defenders in the box than attackers.

I liked the point about the big games, and I do think many have frozen out there on the big stage.

Mulgrew isn't good enough to be a midfielder at this level. Time and time again he gave the ball away, Brown does this too, less so Ledley and Kayal but for me it is down to the general lack of movement. I actually think we have improved as a footballing team in Europe but not having a clinical edge masks much of that improvement, as do the silly errors at the back. Our three most controlled performances (not results, performances) in recent years in the CL have been against Italian sides and we have lost those games 2-0 (away in Milan) and had a couple of 3-0 scorelines in there (home to Milan and Juventus). Therein lies the difficulty, we had a lot of the ball and plenty of chances in all of those games but were undone by poor finishing and sloppy mistakes at the back. Basic stuff as well. Against Milan we had 3 good chances, one scuffed by Boeriggter in the 2nd minute from the corner, van Dijk's blast straight at the keeper, Forrest with a good run shaving the post. They had 3 shots and 3 goals. :rolleyes:

I didn't think we played poorly on the whole the other day and the scoreline didn't accurately reflect the game but its the stupidity of it that gets me this campaign. Fair enough we haven't replaced Hooper and Wanyama adequately, but neither of those were household names before they came to Celtic, both made Celtic a lot of money and from a financial perspective, Celtic are much healthier. Get into the CL again and the stadium will be filled yet again, so where is the incentive for the board to push the boat out? :shrug:

Take Boerrigter as a case in point. Much of what he does reflects the fact that he has hardly kicked a ball for the team. Time and time again, Izaguirre gave him an option on the outside, and time after time he took his time and cut into traffic. Doesn't make him a bad player, just speaks volumes about the game time he has had. In his case there have been injuries, but were he signed in the January window then he would have had half a season under his belt to get used to the others and vice versa. We leave it all to late, probably mostly because there is a belief that no one wants to do business in January and let's face it, the board don't want to pay 6 months of wages just for a league that they are confident of winning.

Here is where I think we are short on vision. We aren't in the market for the best players around anyway, so why not do our business early? We can't compete with the massive teams financially, so turn the whole thing round and think out of the box. Why not bed in new players for the second half of the season? We should be planning ahead, buy and sell in January, simple.

Back to the mental aspects of this, big games, not many big personalities who raise their game. Much of this is down to maturity and you can see the best performers are the older players like Lustig and Samaras. Scott Brown's part in Celtic's European campaign is inexcusable, simple as that. Should he play against Barcelona he will have featured in less than half of Celtic's games this campaign, and, as the captain and one of the older heads, he should have been disciplined for his insanity on the park against Neymar. I don't care how much he made of it, or whether he secretly (insert whatever disparaging remark the tabloids would), Brown shouldn't have kicked out at him. Idiotic and in my book worthy of considering a change of captain for that. Lennon's choice so he will still be around.

It's all about getting this league sorted and moving onto next year now.

Get a goalscorer sorted out and things will look very different.
In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing

HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC

Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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desachi
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Perhaps I am missing a really obvious point here, but what exactly was wrong with the banner?

Bobby Sands, let us not forget, was an elected MP, while Wallace actually took up arms. The way it was pointed out was clever and to the point, I fail to see why UEFA should be upset it about it in any way, shape, or form. Why don't they kick up a fuss about teams wearing poppies, or holding silences for royalty or politicians, or whatever?

I mean why stop there, why not go further and stop anything that would cause contention, what do they say? Never discuss, politics, religion or football? :D

The whole thing is utterly pointless.
In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing

HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC

Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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Caesar
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Well this CL campaign has been one to forget but the writing was most certainly on the wall every game has been strewn with missed chances from glaring sitters to sitters plus a sprinkling of bad luck & good saves

Of course fans/manager cant legislate against a player sclaffin a shot wide of the goal when one on one with the their goalie or putting the ball straight into the their goalies hands when the other 9 times he,ll put the ball either side of him to score BUT what can be done at Lennoxtown is how to defend against long throws or corners watch Hertz terrorise us with both on Sunday

Are our midfield players scared to try the audacious , risky , knife through butter Maestro to Chris Morris type of pass or are they under strict instruction not to or dont they have the ability or do they lack confidence in their ability to do so

Good teams imo will try the pass through the eye of a needle because they know if it doesnt come off an they concede possession that their defence is more than capable of withstanding the oppositions attack on their goal and that they,ll quickly win the ball back

Atm I,m not confident of both of those vital components of CL football ( well any football )

Am I doing our players a disservice when I say that against the likes of Juve , Barca etc that we regain possession its due to their mistakes - shot @ goal goes wide , pass goes out of play - not to us harrying them or denying them space or opportunity it certainly seems that way to me

Do our players make the predictable safe pass to a team mate whose 3 yards away unmarked ( allowed so by opposition ) because theres no forward giving him an alternative by deft movement does the forward desist from attempting to find space because he knows the midfielder with the ball is incapable of the deft pass to match his movement

We know the players we have in our 1st team sqaud we know their strengths & weaknesses when they,re on song they,re great when they,re bad they,re dire

Commons , Kayal , Mulgrew , Forrest , Brown , Stokes , Samaras , Ledley all have their own particular style that wont alter whilst @ Celtic their form will rise & fall they,ll be lucky & unlucky with injuries but what I find very difficult to accept is for example against Aberdeen last weekend when it was blatantly obvious when at 1-1 that Aberdeen were comfortable , their tactics were coping with Celtics nullifing our players yet Mulgrew , Commons etc didnt have the sophistication to see this and change but choosing just to continue to hammer the square peg into the round hole if something is blatantly not working why persist

I,m not going to drone on about a goalscorer as I,m turning into a cracked record we wont buy a proven goalscorer in January but if we dont have one identified now ( jeez he should have been identified this time last year ffs ) & bought well in advance of next seasons CL qualifiers then that imo is gross negligence

Have we seen Commons , Ledley , Mulgrew , Kayal at their best ? is there better to come ? can they will they improve/develope as better players , I honestly think they,re as good as they gonna be .... maybe under the guidance of a different coach

An example - Mulgrew .... he isnt going to break up the central defensive partnership we have & he isnt going to replace a resurgent Izzy but Neil is as dependent on Charlie as Nigella that he is assured of a game every week regardless of merit or the the balance of the team or opposition

This CL campaign could have been one of the most glorious in our history but it was doomed from the outset by a refusal to make that leap of faith
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Caesar
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the banner ?

Politics in football grounds ? ........ have gone hand in hand for as long as I can remember , remember my Dad , an electrician , talking to friends at h/t about elections within their union EEPTU ( think that was the union , all I remember was that bastard Eric Hammond ) .... they would talk about workplace safety , the bosses etc

Been at countless Building Worker Group ( rank & file group within UCATT )meetings where left wing papers would be circulated & Celtic Views being read

Collections for striking miners etc outside Celtic Park etc etc

of course none of this would incur the wrath of those who control the hearts & minds of football and its followers

Theres SNP hoardings at Fir Park & Love street ( old ground ) theres Tory & Labour MPs on the boards at various football clubs , Fulham were sponsored by the GMB

Politics & football ........ its blatant & sublinimall (?) ...... how much you pay for a ticket = market forces = politics ..... etc etc

Making a political statement in a football stadium ? ..... perfectly appropriate imo where did Pinochet round up Chilean people before they disappeared ? football stadiums ..... Croke Park in Ireland spectators murdered ... all in the distant past many will say nothing to do with Celtic even more will say

The banner predictably will come to the attention of UEFA who will have nothing besmirch their televisual product

For it to have Celtic fans gnashing their teeth in outrage is disappointing for me ..... is the sizable amount of Celtic fans disgust/embarrassment regarding the GBs banner a telling sign of the political world moving on is this just another example of political apathy/indifference/hostility that we see every day

When in the 70/80s an political consciousness was heigthened Celtic fans would be gnashing their teeth if there wasnt political expression within the Celtic support .... I,m proud that thatcher had to be presented to Dundee Utd & Celtic in the bowels of Hampden not on the pitch an that she was booed throughout the match ( fekin SFA )

As for offending the SFA & the laptop loyal our very existence offends them

As for the political message intended .... fairly obvious to me
Edited by Caesar, Nov 29 2013, 12:27 PM.
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Wiggy
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UEFA have fined Celtic 50.000 Euros for the William
Wallace-Bobby Sands banner. :???: :crazy:
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desachi
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Waiting to see what level of fine Barcelona get for their banner on the vote for Catalonian independence. :rolleyes:

Football has quite irreversibly moved from the game of the people to the game of corporations. Political comment, even intelligent comment, has no place in a democracy at all, under any costs, unless it is to endorse the parties that exist, can't have the people actually being informed on a mass level anywhere, can we? Heaven forbid it should happen where people are gathered.

And here we are with a manager who thinks there is a problem with the GB having an interest in politics. Come support the club, but only in the way we tell you to. :rolleyes:
In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing

HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC

Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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