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Sing this but don't sing that.
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Topic Started: Dec 15 2011, 04:17 PM (486 Views)
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DiVHoops
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Dec 15 2011, 04:17 PM
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An article from the Daily Record a few songs that are considered fine, considered offensive and some that aren't clear according to the SNP's new bill.
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SING ON
The Sash
A song celebrating the Glorious Revolution of 1688. It celebrates successes of the Protestant Crown in Irish battles against forces of the deposed Catholic King James VII of Scotland and II of England and Ireland. The lyrics are not deemed offensive and the new legislation would not prevent the song being sung.
The Fields Of Athenry
A song which refers to rebellion against the “Famine and the Crown”. Yet it is a folk ballad lamenting the Irish famine of the 1840s and the harsh punishment – transportation – for petty food theft. The song should cause offence to no one and would not be proscribed under the new law. Despite its folk ballad credentials, the song was penned as late as the 1970s. It is regularly played over the PA at Celtic Park.
The Cry Is No Surrender
Another song that celebrates William and Mary’s accession to the throne of Scotland, England and Ireland. It commemorates the Siege of Derry in 1689 during the Williamite War in Ireland. Again, the lyrics are a positive celebration which would not be proscribed under any new legislation.
The Soldiers’ Song
Another inoffensive song which, despite being the national anthem of the Republic of Ireland, has also occasionally been used as one of the songs at Ireland rugby internationals. Although it contains a reference to “the despot,” few would disagree that the song is a celebration of positive Irish nationalism in the same way Flower Of Scotland celebrates national success.
BANNED SONGS
Billy Boys
This song originated in the 1920s and celebrates the “Brigton” (Bridgeton, Glasgow) Protestant gang led by Billy Fullerton who often clashed with Catholic gangs. Lyrics such as “Up to our knees in F****n blood” make it offensive. It is sung to the tune of Marching Through Georgia, penned to celebrate General William T Sherman’s victorious 1864 “March to the Sea” during the American Civil War.
Glasgow Celtic IRA
A chant which is offensive because of its terrorist reference. Celtic have said numerous times that there is no place for IRA references among the Celtic support.
The Famine Song
A chant which refers to the Irish Famine of the 1840s. Proscribed as not only sectarian but also racist since it contains the lyrics Why Don’t You Go Home?.
Gorgie Boys
A version of the Billy Boys again to the tune of Marching Through Georgia. Some versions have references to F****n blood, though others say “Hibee” blood in reference to Hearts’ rivals Hibs. Anyone singing the sectarian version is committing a criminal act.
Ibrox Disaster Song
Sung by a small minority of Celtic and Aberdeen fans. It is offensive for obvious reasons. As well as the exultation of death there is reference to “H**s” lying on stairs.
In Your Glasgow Slums
A minority of Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs fans sing about conditions and family relationships in Glasgow. Offensive to many Glaswegians.
Sheep Song
Some fans use this offensive dirge to taunt Aberdeen fans or fans from other clubs from outwith the Central Belt.
Super Killie
Some versions of this Kilmarnock fans’ song refer to “black b******s”. It is a jibe that Ayr United fans are unclean, and the fact Ayr play in black and white, rather than any racist motivations. However, the phrase on its own is offensive.
Deceased Players
Various versions of sick and offensive songs have done the rounds with yobs singing about the death of Celtic winger Johnny Doyle, Rangers legend Davie Cooper and Dunfermline’s Norrie McCathie. All of these men died suddenly and young. The offence should be obvious to all.
JURY'S OUT
The Boys Of The Old Brigade
The song is a pro-IRA anthem relating to the Irish War of Independence. Some Celtic fans claim it is not sectarian but the BBC refused to apologise for branding it as sectarian this year. The song has modern pro-IRA add-ons in some versions which would cause offence.
Follow Follow
The correct lyrics of this song should offend no one. But the corrupted version includes “F*** the Pope and the Vatican”. Many Rangers fans resent its hijacking.
The Merry Ploughboy
This song includes references to joining the IRA and Ireland’s struggle for freedom. The IRA referred to are the early 20th century version and not the late 20th century terrorist group. It was banned on TV for many years in the Republic of Ireland because of a line changed by many to say “the land De Valera sold”, interpreted as a reference to Ulster.
Some corruptions include “We’re all off to Dublin in the Green – F*** the Queen” which would be deemed offensive, and changing the line “where the bayonets slash and the rifles crash” to “where the bayonets slash the Orange sash”.
Link
Edited by DiVHoops, Dec 15 2011, 04:22 PM.
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desachi
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Dec 15 2011, 04:46 PM
Post #2
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Are they really this bored?
There really is nothing at all wrong with the vast majority of the Celtic song book and any right minded, fair observer would come to this conclusion.
There is also a massive difference between what is deemed inappropriate and what is illegal. Trouble is the rags and it seems the lawmakers themselves don't seem to understand this distinction. Sadly, the club seem to have an agenda all of their own and are not doing anything to solve the problem.
Dictate to the support what to do as no one considers them important enough or even competent enough to make the right choices by themselves. Apparently only those in lofty boardrooms, editors of newspapers and parliamentarians are worthy of making these distinctions for the rest of us.
Bring on the noise.
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In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing
HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC
Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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Cowiebhoy
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Dec 15 2011, 05:41 PM
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From the DR - aye right.
And what exactly is Glasgow Celtic IRA? Can't recall ever hearing that one!
Here's one that is pretty relevant - maybe some clever clogs in the GB can change the lyrics to suit accordingly....
O Paddy dear, and did ye hear the news that's goin' round? The shamrock is by law forbid to grow on Irish ground! No more Saint Patrick's Day we'll keep, his color can't be seen For there's a cruel law ag'in the Wearin' o' the Green." I met with Napper Tandy, and he took me by the hand And he said, "How's poor old Ireland, and how does she stand?" "She's the most distressful country that ever yet was seen For they're hanging men and women there for the Wearin' o' the Green."
"So if the color we must wear be England's cruel red Let it remind us of the blood that Irishmen have shed And pull the shamrock from your hat, and throw it on the sod But never fear, 'twill take root there, though underfoot 'tis trod.
When laws can stop the blades of grass from growin' as they grow And when the leaves in summer-time their color dare not show Then I will change the color too I wear in my caubeen But till that day, please God, I'll stick to the Wearin' o' the Green.
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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
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tigergerry
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Dec 16 2011, 11:55 AM
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they actually should have gave this its real title which is the celtic sympony by the wolfe tonnes,but the sleekit masonic bastards knew that this song included the words celtic &ira,so it was quite easy for them just to give it the title they did, hope this clears this wee quandry up fir you and if you need anything else explained im yir man aye im still alive-just
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tigers gonna get ya
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Wiggy
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Mar 1 2012, 01:50 PM
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Football religious hatred law takes effect in Scotland
A new law designed to reduce religious hatred associated with football has come into force in Scotland.
The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 has created two new offences.
One covers behaviour in and around football matches, the other relates to messages sent by post or by electronic means.
Anyone convicted under the new legislation could face a prison sentence of up to five years.
Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs Roseanna Cunningham said: "This legislation will have no impact on the banter and passionate support that goes hand in hand with supporting football teams.
"It is not about discouraging the competition and rivalry that is the lifeblood of football, it is about eradicating sectarianism and other unacceptable expressions of hate from our national game.
"We listened to Scotland's police and prosecutors when they told us they needed greater powers to take a hard line on sectarianism at football and threats of harm being posted on the internet.
"These new laws make it very clear that religious hatred will no longer be tolerated and there should be no mistake that those who promote sectarianism will feel the full force of the law."
'Railroaded' claim The Scottish parliament passed the legislation in December 2011. At the time, Labour, the Tories, Lib Dems and the Scottish Greens said the bill was "railroaded" through by the SNP.
All four opposition parties at Holyrood and independent MSP Margo MacDonald released a joint statement.
It said: "Members of all political parties are determined to wipe the blight of sectarianism from Scottish society.
"It is of real regret that the first piece of legislation passed by this new parliament has been railroaded through by the SNP.
"The SNP has used its majority to force through bad law that risks doing more harm than good. It sets a worrying precedent for this parliament."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17214369
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DiVHoops
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Mar 1 2012, 03:20 PM
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Will you get the jail for singing this?
Well I have been a provo now for 15 years or more, with Armalites and mortar bombs I thought I knew the score, but now we've got a weapon that we've never used before, the Brits are looking worried, and they're going to worry more
Tiocfaidh Ar La, Sing up the'Ra
Oh ah up the 'Ra, Oh ah up the 'Ra
SAM missiles in the skies.
Now I don't condone the PIRA or anyone else in that conflict in any measure as they killed alot of innocent people but fuck me that's a catchy tune!
Edited by DiVHoops, Mar 1 2012, 03:23 PM.
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DiVHoops
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Mar 1 2012, 03:22 PM
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Double post whoops.
Edited by DiVHoops, Mar 1 2012, 03:22 PM.
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desachi
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Mar 1 2012, 07:40 PM
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No idea what songs are illegal and to be honest, if they were serious about this then they would have produced a list by now, I would have thought.
Hardly fair to introduce a law that is as clear as mud and then deprive people of their liberties by enforcing it without them knowing if they are actually breaking it.
Hold on a second... we are in Britain. Par for the course then.
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In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king.
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing
HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC
Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High
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Wiggy
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Mar 21 2013, 12:30 PM
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Good piece from Spiers about "offensive behaviour".
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Spiers on Sport: how the SNP have made policing fans a minefield
Graham Spiers Wednesday 20 March 2013
More and more people are now asking if the Scottish Government is going too far in its attempt to halt "offensive behaviour" at football through incessant policing and harassing of supporters. More and more people are now asking if the Scottish Government is going too far in its attempt to halt "offensive behaviour" at football through incessant policing and harassing of supporters.
I deliberately place "offensive behaviour" in inverted commas because the nub of all this is an interpretative minefield regarding fans' behaviour, wherein clarity is proving near-impossible. The recent case of the Green Brigade at Celtic, a large and noisy group of supporters, some of whom have Irish republican sympathies, has highlighted once more Scotland's alleged "police state". Various QCs, MSPs and other commentators have expressed concern at the way this group is being monitored by Strathclyde Police, to a point, it is being alleged, of outright harassment. Just what is going on here? Why has there been this surge in such intense scrutiny of supporters and the way they behave? The momentum stems from police attempts to implement the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act 2012, a piece of legislation that many - this writer included - had doubts about. The act seeks to do what it says on the tin: stamp out "offensive behaviour" such as bigoted or sectarian expression. There has been plenty of that around the Old Firm over the years, so to that end all decent-minded people felt that the law should crack down on bigots. But what of political chanting at Ibrox or Parkhead? Indeed, how do you define political chanting? For example, should some of the Irish republican songs chanted by Celtic supporters be defined as "political" or "sectarian"? It is on this blurry point that Dr Stuart Waiton, a sociologist at Abertay University in Dundee, has waded in. Waiton deplores the Offensive Behaviour at Football act and is highly critical, to a point of being derisive, about the treatment of the Green Brigade. For my part, I wish the "Irish stuff" which can be heard from Rangers and Celtic fans could be binned. More often than not these chants are sung by supporters who are singularly clueless about the history and politics of Ireland. I also hear both sets of Old Firm supporters singing about something more specific: the IRA. I need not point out who sings for and who sings agin. Again, I'd rather all this was junked. But the point here is, where does the offence lie, and why? Also, is this stuff political or is it sectarian? Moreover, no matter how you define it, football club supporters the world over espouse causes or beliefs which go way beyond the game: in Spain, in Portugal, in eastern Europe, in Latin America, as well as here in Scotland. I've said it before, if you were The Global Policeman I'm not sure where you would start, let alone finish, with this. At Barcelona? At Real Madrid? At Rangers and Celtic? At Inter Milan? At the rival Viennese clubs? The list is endless. I make a clear distinction between this stuff and the more blatant cases of bigotry, racism, anti-semitism and the like. These things we can and should stamp hard on, with no "police-state" argument being raised. I've written often about offensive behaviour at football and have no doubt that bigotry had to be tackled. But I can also see, as Stuart Waiton and others are claiming, that the Scottish police are now in a dire situation as they seek to corral supporters while trying to define right and wrong. Someone said to me: "A law never works if it cannot be objectively measured." This absolutely captures the problem of the Offensive Behaviour at Football legislation. We got a glimpse of the mess the Scottish government was getting into when, in June 2011, Roseanna Cunningham, not having realised how much she had chewed off, had to frantically backtrack and delay the processing of the bill. That day it took a mere half hour of questions to realise that Alex Salmond and the SNP, wobbling towards their legislation, hadn't quite appreciated the acuity of supporters who wanted to defend their right to hold political or cultural positions in song and slogan. The Offensive Behaviour bill was duly delayed. But its final clarity, when put on the statute book last year, was scarcely enhanced. It has all become quite a dog's breakfast. Meanwhile, football supporters in Scotland feel like they are under a type of surveillance once associated with life behind the old Iron Curtain.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-how-the-snp-have-made-policing-fans-a-minefield.1363789179
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