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| Politics and Sport; again! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 6 2008, 11:55 AM (669 Views) | |
| groucho bhoy | Oct 9 2008, 09:05 AM Post #16 |
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UnrepentantFenianBastard - RespectToAllWhoRefuse ToBeMastered
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absolutely intertwined. and usually the politics unrepresentesd in the mainstream, for better or worse. the political and cultural side of celtic means more to me than the football. much more. |
| [COLOR=green][SIZE=14]ARTUR BORUC - POLISH PROVO #1[/SIZE][/COLOR] | |
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| buckfasthero | Oct 9 2008, 09:31 AM Post #17 |
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Same here. The EPL had far more going for it than Celtic as a kid in Belfast. That's why so many fall by the wayside and you see them running around in their Man U and Liverpool jerseys. For anyone born outside of Glasgow it is usually the political and cultural dimension that makes Celtic such an attraction, or else why bother with them? When I looked at the likes of Liverpool and Man U I saw hordes of Englishmen waving Union Jacks. I then looked at pictures of Paradise and saw the Green, White and Orange flying from every corner of the stadium. That's why they're my team and if that's not political then I'm not sure what is. When I got older their social attitude (the support, that is) was also very impressive and I knew I was among the good guys. Do you really think the hundreds of thousands of Irishmen who over generations have made the trip across on the ferry to watch Celtic play on a Saturday came over because of their love for Scottish football? Or was there something more? One more thing, if politics was never a factor in deciding your team then why Celtic and not Rangers? If your answer is family tradition, then why does your family have that tradition? |
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| desachi | Oct 9 2008, 02:52 PM Post #18 |
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walking barefoot
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Some cracking posts there. :thumbs.up: Fully agree with them (Mainser, GB, buckie) on the issues raised. I think it goes without saying that without the political element (small p) then there would be no point in following Celtic unless you liked the colour green. Scottish football is not the most attractive brand of football in Europe, so why not take the trip to Old Trafford, Anfield or Highbury where some of the best players in Europe are on show every other week? I fully believe that all organisations are inherently political as they hold an interest to people, and whenever groups of people organise then there is always a political element to them in some way, shape, or form. Unless of course those who are amongst them have no opinions this way or that, a phenomenon that is impossible to find given that human beings have a brain and free will. This is why, to me, it is pointless to try and fight diversity, whether you agree with the points of view or not, as you are trying to bend human nature in people and that is the last refuge of the human being's individuality. :thumbs.up: For me, this is the reason Celtic has such a broad appeal as the fans are (generally) more open to diversity and perhaps would even welcome it for the most part. Contrast this to TFOD who have a close minded view of what being a Rainjurs fan is, "ra peepel" and the Queen and this idea of being British and throwing away diversity at the door. Elitist crap that doesn't tolerate a different thought. Of course this is by no means exclusive to them, in the same way that they also have their free thinkers who find the exclusivity element abhorrent. It is in the numbers that the difference arises. The predominant voice for them is the intolerant and the predominant voice at Celtic is the tolerant. For me that is the political identity of Celtic today. |
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In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king. All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High | |
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| groucho bhoy | Oct 9 2008, 09:51 PM Post #19 |
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UnrepentantFenianBastard - RespectToAllWhoRefuse ToBeMastered
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sport is all about communal expression. people group round a club or team or even an entire sport and over time they become identified with a particular way of thinking and behaviour.whether it's intended or not, a communal ideal or goal is political.that's just a facet of society. all this pish about making football apolitcal is guff. what they mean is forcing the politics expressed within football into the mainstream, or at the very least to steer it towards the arena of 'respectability'. i'm proud of what celtic represents, from our very earliest moments, through our biggest achievements and right up to the hum-drum normality of today. it wouldn't be celtic without it. |
| [COLOR=green][SIZE=14]ARTUR BORUC - POLISH PROVO #1[/SIZE][/COLOR] | |
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| tamfaeglesca | Oct 9 2008, 10:24 PM Post #20 |
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Very good there lads, while you were all asking questions you also answered a lot of questions, you see unlike you lot I support Celtic for football reasons, the calvary seem to support Celtic for politcal reasons only. One poster wrote if it was not for the politics why bother, another one wrote that the politics were more important to him than the football, another wrote that some fans fell by the wayside because they chose to follow Man U. or Liverpool, whatever that means. It tells me that if my beloved team were in a lower division you so called tims would hitch your political wagons someplace else, funny that. And in case I have to explain that later, let me do it now, to you lot Celtics stature in world football gives you a platform for your political veiws, or so you think, where as if Celtic were not such a high ranking club you would have fuck to do with them. Thats the difference between a Partick Thistle,Aberdeen,St Mirren and many more fans, they support they're teams for football, you lot support politics not Celtic. |
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| tigergerry | Oct 9 2008, 10:50 PM Post #21 |
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tigergerry
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tam you know for a kick off this part of your reply to the subject is nonsense ive got political views as has any person do i mix them when i talk about the celtic defiately not with intention but at the end of the day politics runs our lives 24 hours a day and i dont think that was a very fair comment aimed at certain REGULAR posters on this forum who yes sometimes have a political slant to some of thier posts but celtic is the main talking point of this forum and me sometimes ive made a political reply to a celtic subject then i just pull out of the political side and then my next post on the celtic subject will be tottally focussed on the celtic subject that is under discussion |
| tigers gonna get ya | |
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| tamfaeglesca | Oct 9 2008, 10:54 PM Post #22 |
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First of all they were not founded as a political organisation, they were founded as a charitable organisation, big difference. You asked me a question and then continued to answer what you percieved to be my answer, you are quite sad. In fact I enjoy when you surface with your little silly comments, as you do go into hiding very fast after I have responded to you. So lets get something straight, don't ever ask me to give you a yes or no answer, as you should know by now, that will never happen whether I'm sitting at the computer or sitting accross a table from you, and if you intend on replying at least get your facts right. Btw did you ever kick a football in your time? Just a thought.
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| tigergerry | Oct 9 2008, 11:30 PM Post #23 |
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tigergerry
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were we here on the forum born in 1887=not are us herE in the present day remember what we were informed as young kids what celtic were founded for =not later on in our individual lives about the age of 14 when we started to learn about life and read and educate ourselves about the foundation of our club it was that brother walfrid and his committee set up a football team to raise tables for the poor children to be able to eat politics in that year and that decade of that century had politics just like decades and centuries before and every single member of the committee that founded celtic did and were entitled to have their own political thoughts now im JUST INTO MY FIFTIES AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IVE EVER EVER HEARD CELTIC SUPPORTERS SAYING THAT THE PEOPLE THAT FOUNDED OUR CLUB DID IT FOR POLITICAL REASONS THIS POST DISSAPOINTS ME DEEPLY |
| tigers gonna get ya | |
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| tamfaeglesca | Oct 9 2008, 11:45 PM Post #24 |
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How is it nonesense Tiger when thats what they wrote, I did'nt make those quotes up. You yourself just wrote that " sometimes I've made a politcal reply to a Celtic subject then I just pull out the political side". Listen I could'nt give a fuck if a Celtic supporter was black,white,Asian,catholic,protestant,jew,arab,gay,athiest,left wing,right wing or Dundonian , I had to throw that one in, but I would rather they leave their baggage at the door, and if any fan follows a team any team for political veiws only, I suggest they get a new hobby.This thread should be in chat btw, but that's only my opinion. |
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| tigergerry | Oct 10 2008, 01:15 AM Post #25 |
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tigergerry
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thats whats wrong tam just that tam if i came out in a debate something to do with politics or something unrelated to celtic and somebody said that because of what i said on that topic that im not a celtic man t fuck off mate you dont know me there is more to life than celtic but keep that a secret i for one would never tar a poster on this forum a politition before his/her posts about celtic celtic first and if they have got a wee bit of politics to fling ito the topic thats up to them me ill comment if i want to but if i dont ill not i dont come on this forum to speak or read polotics but if it comes up ive got tht choice to either change it back to celtic talk or switch off me id rather use the two options available go to bed or switch to another celtic channell on my t.v :celtic: :luck:
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| tigers gonna get ya | |
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| buckfasthero | Oct 10 2008, 01:33 AM Post #26 |
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The Famine - A consequence of the British colonisation of Ireland (political) Mass immigration of Irish into cities throughout the globe including Glasgow (political) Social exclusion of the Irish Catholic into mainstream society leading to extreme poverty (political) Social Action in the form of creating a football club to feed, inspire, promote and empower this downtrodden and oppressed minority (EXTREMELY POLITICAL) The political outlook of Celtic supporters as a result of these humble beginnings have been mainly left-wing and Irish nationalist as a consequence and despite intense pressure from various institutions such as the media and the SFA (and some of our own, it seems) we refuse to apologise for it. We won't 'leave it at the door' and we shouldn't have to. But (and this is the most important part) we don't exclude anyone who has a different outlook, skin colour, religious persuasion, or cultural heritage. We can disagree and sometimes even argue, but we all belong to the same family at the end of the day. IMO Celtic have the most politically aware support in the whole of the UK and Ireland and I for one hopes that never changes. Like Barcelona we are 'more than just a football club'. |
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| Henke | Oct 10 2008, 02:25 AM Post #27 |
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I find it absolutely astonishing that anyone purporting to be a Celtic fan, would argue that sport and more specifically football, don't mix. Astonishing. If the reasons for our clubs existence weren't born out of the political field, then I'd be very keen to here peoples take on those fateful events in the late 1880's. If the club wasn't founded for political reasons, then what were the reasons? :rolleyes: And that was only our birth!!! From our birth, to the "flag" incident, to the songs we sing and have always sung, to the very make up of the support, politics and Celtic have forever been entwined and long may that continue. And that is just from a Celtic perspective. Tell fans of FC Barcelona that politics have nothing to do with football. That club represents a people, a language and a history. And that is as important to them today as it was during far more restrictive and oppressive Spanish political climates of the past, which banned the use of the Catalan tongue, flags etc...... What about places like Poland, Hungry, Czechoslovakia during the war/cold war? Their football teams were intrinsically linked to their national identity, a national identity that was being restricted, re-written or made downright illegal!!! Then there is the more dark use of politics in football, such as The Soviet Union, Italy and Nazi Germany. Terrible examples, but examples nonetheless, that football and politics are more often than not linked. It has been used in the wrong hands in the past, as vehicles of propaganda, but generally speaking when the two come together (especially at Celtic FC), it is as a positive expression of a shared identity, political beliefs and culture. And that is just talking about football. Jesus, if you look at the history of the Olympics, from Hitler's rubber ear of Jessie Owens, to the mass boycott at the Melbourne games in 1956 due to Israeli invasion of Egypt, to the Black Power saltue by Tommy Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 games, to the Munich games in 1972 and the subsequent, terrible events there, to yet more boycotts during the LA 1980 games due to USSR's invasion of Afghanistan, to the Tibet protests at this years games, it is clear to see that politics and political games are invariably played out on the sporting field. And then there was the banning of South Africa from partaking in International Cricket, Rugby, Football etc, matches due to Apartheid. But yeah, politics and sports have got bugger all to do with each other.
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In every hick town in Caledonia Across this pseudo nation You can see the most fucked up scum that was ever shat into creation Where a blue McEwan's lager top equals no imagination You're hunbelievable If you're having cash problems I feel bad for you hun I've got 99 problems but tax ain't one | |
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| Mainser | Oct 10 2008, 08:56 AM Post #28 |
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How dare you, you patronising b*stard - I have never been so angry at a post in my life. As someone who supports a club in a different sport that was relegated 9, yes NINE divisions because our owner sold us out, and continued to follow them, week in week out when we were playing on park pitches, how dare you question my, or anyone else's commitment to Celtic. We are the ones who followed them through the dark days in the 90s whilst you sat on your fat capitalist arse on the other side of the world and put the world to rights from the comfort of your own home. In fact I bet you were happy to accept the soviet style propoganda from the board when ordinary fans who empathised with the INSTITUTION that is Celtic and fought for it's future. |
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| desachi | Oct 10 2008, 02:21 PM Post #29 |
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walking barefoot
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Let's cut this another way. Celtic is nothing without the fans, and all that they bring, from their sense of humour, personality, knowledge, experience and politics. It was the fans who built this club. Wonder if Brother Walfrid "checked-in" his personality at the door before those meetings in 1887? This notion of fans today "checking-in" their personalities, and the things that drive them and are important to them at the door when they go to watch Celtic is exactly the type of drivel that you would expect from fans of certain sport in nations where fans are told what to clap and what to say to support their team. Utter nonsense. And this notion from someone who keeps banging on about being "open" and "inclusive." :rolleyes: Jock Stein, our greatest manager waxed lyrical about the quality of the fans and all that they bring. He himself was a great manager because he brought his qualities to the club and part of that was his heritage of coming from mining stock and the socialism that came from it. Be a mindless drone, only interested in buying merchandise and wearing oversized foam fingers with "We're No.1" written on them whilst wearing replica shirts? Funny how the future of our football club minus the politics and character is already out there. Look at how sports in the US are now. From being social institutions in the period between wars to the rampant commercialism you see now. Is that the future we want for us? For those that do subscribe to this future, good luck to them, that is their choice, but for them to tell other fans that they are lesser fans because their understanding of Celtic is different, is no different to the "we arra peepel" logic of TFOD, where exclusivity is the norm and those who don't have the "heritage" are deemed outsiders. A hunnish concept if ever I saw one.
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In the nation of the blind the one eyed man is king. All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing HWEUCSC & Chicago CSC Buena Vista Celtic Club, Keeping the Green Flag Flying High | |
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| DermofthedeaD | Oct 10 2008, 06:18 PM Post #30 |
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of course politics and sport cannot be separated. the to have been inextricably linked to one another for hundreds and thousands of years. you only have to look at how roman emperors used games and gladiator battles in order to gain favour from the population. the aztecs used sport as a way of implementing their practice of human sacrifice. what it seems to me, its acceptable to have political views in sport, only if theyre an all encompassing view. eg tibet and the olympics. and therefore its ok to be political in sport when its the fashionable thing to do. but when it comes to celtic expressing political views, its sectarian? WTF? youre talking about a community that has been castigated, abused and discriminated against before immigrants from ireland even set foot in scotland. now we are told to put that identity behind us, and the only reason that is, is because the board is infested with mercenaries and schills, who have waxed lyrical about how much the club is making, but spend damn all on the team. but look, we have a supporter of the iraq war as our chairman, our majority shareholder has donated money to the tory party. so let me get this, a war monger and a right wing conservative, who are involved with many shady political characters and made some very political decisions, run our club and dictate to us how we should and shouldn't support the club we love? they love celtic too, but the reason they love celtic is because they love the 0s they make from the fans and their commercial exploits. the only reason that they dont want politics involved is because they think it will hurt their pockets. look at rangers on the other hand, they've done the polar opposite. 16.90 a ticket, ulster day, orange and sash away kits. if our board thought this way too, youd see a mural of bobby sands on the jungle, back home in derry on the speakers and tricolours on our kits it just happens sport and politics are inseparable, boca juniors, river plate, lazio, livorno, bilboa, st pauli, celtic and rangers. the reason these clubs are supported are because theyre identified with certain parts of the community. people see themselves and their views being represented by their clubs, they feel part of a family, aren't families not political too? next we will be told to keep it out of our families. the day the politics is out of sport, is the day that sport loses all meaning |
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Just a thought.
, I had to throw that one in, but I would rather they leave their baggage at the door, and if any fan follows a team any team for political veiws only, I suggest they get a new hobby.
:celtic:
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