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Homestead the Finale
Topic Started: Nov 19 2010, 06:25 PM (1,199 Views)
Gordon Owns
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Ram Jam
Nov 21 2010, 05:53 PM
After last race Harvick had a 295 point lead under the standard points, I don't think Johnson made that up today.
Oh snap, for some reason I forgot that Harvick had a shit load of points on second place. lol

Still, 2 championships ain't bad.

I wish the old points was still around but not crying over it. A good driver will win under whatever points system.

The chase needs to go though. NASCAR ain't no damn athletic sport.

This playoffs shit is ridiculous. Brian France needs to get shot in the head.
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Jenny
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Congrats to Denny and the whole 11 team. They had a great season with 8 wins, and 14 top 5, and 18 top 10's. In my eyes, he's my champion. Say what you want, on how he lost it.. But if it hadn't of been for the damage that happend with the wreck when Greg hit him, he could have very well won it.

Mike, didn't lose the championship. When Denny got in that accident that's when he lost it. The car was damage and it wasn't fast any more.

So say what you want.. I don't care.. But I will say this.. In 2011, You better keep tabs on that 11 team. Because I think HE will be the one to beat.
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Gordon Owns
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Ram Jam
Nov 21 2010, 05:58 PM
I never mentioned anything about the Chase format having anything to do with who was better. In my opinion Johnson is the best in the field today, but historically he isn't even the best guy on his team. Jeff Gordon is a better driver if you look at his prime, not anymore since he is getting up there in age and resources are more directed at Johnson, but in his prime Gordon was better I think.

Then if you factor in quality of the field, quality of the cars, quality of the tracks raced on, technology available, it makes a large difference in who is at the top of the all time greatest list.
Fair enough my good sir.
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Jenny
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Also want to ask, Reck what did you mean by Gordon being better than Earnhardt? I'm confused on that.
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Lord Diddy
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Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:04 PM
Also want to ask, Reck what did you mean by Gordon being better than Earnhardt? I'm confused on that.
yea it didnt make sense to me either lol
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Jenny
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Lord Diddy
Nov 21 2010, 06:09 PM
Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:04 PM
Also want to ask, Reck what did you mean by Gordon being better than Earnhardt? I'm confused on that.
yea it didnt make sense to me either lol
Glad I wasn't the only one.. lol

The way I took it was, he thought Gordon was better than Earnhardt when it came to cups. But hell at this point int he day.. I'm sure I've taken that wrong..
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Gordon Owns
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What's to be confused about. Pretty clear cut.

A driver cant be the best just because he's your favorite driver.

Gordon totally domininated his competition back in his day....that's including Earnhardt.


Heres a head to head matchup

Gordon Vs Earnhardt 1993-2000

Top 5s
Gordon-129
Earnhardt-101

Top 10s
Gordon-166
Earnhardt-160

Poles (pretty useless stat)
Gordon-33
Earbhardt-9

Laps led:
Gordon-10,708
Earnhard-5,751

And the champs
Gordon-4
Earnhardt-2
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Ram Jam
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Looks like he is saying overall Gordon is the better driver in his opinion. He was just pointing out what has happened because of the chase with his title changes with the other part.
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Ram Jam
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:24 PM
What's to be confused about. Pretty clear cut.

A driver cant be the best just because he's your favorite driver.

Gordon totally domininated his competition back in his day....that's including Earnhardt.


Heres a head to head matchup

Gordon Vs Earnhardt 1993-2000

Top 5s
Gordon-129
Earnhardt-101

Top 10s
Gordon-166
Earnhardt-160

Poles (pretty useless stat)
Gordon-33
Earbhardt-9

Laps led:
Gordon-10,708
Earnhard-5,751

And the champs
Gordon-4
Earnhardt-2
It's kind of hard to put the end of a guys 20+ year career against another dude's prime even if that is the only time the go head to head. That's like comparing the last 6 years of Johnson's career against Gordon's. Of course Johnson is going to be better, because Jeff is worn down from so much wear and tear and just life in general.
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Gordon Owns
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Ram Jam
Nov 21 2010, 06:27 PM
Looks like he is saying overall Gordon is the better driver in his opinion. He was just pointing out what has happened because of the chase with his title changes with the other part.
Oh no I'm not taking the chase into account. Gordon pretty much got fucked over that. But that's for another time.

I meant Gordon really did kicked everyone's butts in the mid 90s.

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Ram Jam
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I know that's what I meant, you were explaining what would happen without the Chase.
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Jenny
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I just asked what you were meaning.. Good lord..
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Nascarfan977
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Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:00 PM
Congrats to Denny and the whole 11 team. They had a great season with 8 wins, and 14 top 5, and 18 top 10's. In my eyes, he's my champion. Say what you want, on how he lost it.. But if it hadn't of been for the damage that happend with the wreck when Greg hit him, he could have very well won it.

Mike, didn't lose the championship. When Denny got in that accident that's when he lost it. The car was damage and it wasn't fast any more.

So say what you want.. I don't care.. But I will say this.. In 2011, You better keep tabs on that 11 team. Because I think HE will be the one to beat.
When Greg hit him? Denny slid up and got into Greg :unsure:
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FedXRcing11
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Eat dick Hamlin.
How tasteful. :wink:

Seems like someone's a little upset that his driver hasn't done crap in 2 years and couldn't have even DREAMED of coming close to dethroning Douche Bag Johnson, let alone leading in the points like JAMES DENNIS HAMLIN did. :wink:

And that's okay cause in my eyes Denny is a true champion and put up a better fight than anyone else. His team‘s performance is the only thing that kept the Chase even remotely interesting instead of JJ dominating the points the entire time as usual. Denny and that 11 team are amazing! It will be his cup next year.

GO DENNY!!! :cup1: :woot: :cup1: :D
Edited by FedXRcing11, Nov 21 2010, 06:45 PM.
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Jenny
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Nascarfan977
Nov 21 2010, 06:40 PM
Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:00 PM
Congrats to Denny and the whole 11 team. They had a great season with 8 wins, and 14 top 5, and 18 top 10's. In my eyes, he's my champion. Say what you want, on how he lost it.. But if it hadn't of been for the damage that happend with the wreck when Greg hit him, he could have very well won it.

Mike, didn't lose the championship. When Denny got in that accident that's when he lost it. The car was damage and it wasn't fast any more.

So say what you want.. I don't care.. But I will say this.. In 2011, You better keep tabs on that 11 team. Because I think HE will be the one to beat.
When Greg hit him? Denny slid up and got into Greg :unsure:
There for, Greg still touched him! :wink:
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Gordon Owns
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Ram Jam
Nov 21 2010, 06:29 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:24 PM
What's to be confused about. Pretty clear cut.

A driver cant be the best just because he's your favorite driver.

Gordon totally domininated his competition back in his day....that's including Earnhardt.


Heres a head to head matchup

Gordon Vs Earnhardt 1993-2000

Top 5s
Gordon-129
Earnhardt-101

Top 10s
Gordon-166
Earnhardt-160

Poles (pretty useless stat)
Gordon-33
Earbhardt-9

Laps led:
Gordon-10,708
Earnhard-5,751

And the champs
Gordon-4
Earnhardt-2
It's kind of hard to put the end of a guys 20+ year career against another dude's prime even if that is the only time the go head to head. That's like comparing the last 6 years of Johnson's career against Gordon's. Of course Johnson is going to be better, because Jeff is worn down from so much wear and tear and just life in general.
Theres an excuse for everything.

Going by that logic, no one cant be better then the last because he had 20 or some years on that particular someone?

Regardless of Earnhart been in cup for however many years, Gordon was the better driver in the mid 90s. Wouldn't you agree?

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying Gordon was the better driver from Earnhardt's early days. You cant compare his entire career. I'm just comparing what can be compare.

One can also compare the first 8 years of each driver in which case it would look like this...

1979 (Earnhardt's full season) thru 1986

Wins

Earnhardt-20
Gordon-52

Top 5s
Earnhardt-93
Gordon-129

Top 10s
Earnhardt-145
Gordon-166

Champs would still be 2 to 4.
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Gordon Owns
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FedXRcing11
Nov 21 2010, 06:43 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Eat dick Hamlin.
How tasteful. :wink:

Seems like someone's a little upset that his driver hasn't done crap in 2 years and couldn't have even DREAMED of coming close to dethroning Douche Bag Johnson, let alone leading in the points like JAMES DENNIS HAMLIN did. :wink:

And that's okay cause in my eyes Denny is a true champion and put up a better fight than anyone else. His team‘s performance is the only thing that kept the Chase even remotely interesting instead of JJ dominating the points the entire time as usual. Denny and that 11 team are amazing! It will be his cup next year.

GO DENNY!!! :cup1: :woot: :cup1: :D
Wow relax. lol

Suck a dick Denny.

That better?

I'm not the least upset. If I'm upset it would be towards that douche bag Steve, no one else.

I got to see Gordon win 3 of his championships and most of his wins which is more that you can say from watching Hamlin so I'm totally satisfied with what I witness with Gordon.

And about Gordon not doing shit in the past 2 years..I'll do you one better. He hasn't done much since his 2001 championship season.

Still Gordon runs circles on Denny on his worst day.

And you are missing the point, Gordon is a co-owner 5 time champs too

So yeah...

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Jenny
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:53 PM
FedXRcing11
Nov 21 2010, 06:43 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Eat dick Hamlin.
How tasteful. :wink:

Seems like someone's a little upset that his driver hasn't done crap in 2 years and couldn't have even DREAMED of coming close to dethroning Douche Bag Johnson, let alone leading in the points like JAMES DENNIS HAMLIN did. :wink:

And that's okay cause in my eyes Denny is a true champion and put up a better fight than anyone else. His team‘s performance is the only thing that kept the Chase even remotely interesting instead of JJ dominating the points the entire time as usual. Denny and that 11 team are amazing! It will be his cup next year.

GO DENNY!!! :cup1: :woot: :cup1: :D
Wow relax. lol

Suck a dick Denny.

That better?

I'm not the least upset. If I'm upset it would be towards that douche bag Steve, no one else.

I got to see Gordon win 3 of his championships and most of his wins which is more that you can say from watching Hamlin so I'm totally satisfied with what I witness with Gordon.

And about Gordon not doing shit in the past 2 years..I'll do you one better. He hasn't done much since his 2001 championship season.

Still Gordon runs circles on Denny on his worst day.

And you are missing the point, Gordon is a co-owner 5 time champs too

So yeah...

Jeffy wasn't running circles around Denny today! :shifty:
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Ram Jam
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:44 PM
Theres an excuse for everything.

Going by that logic, no one cant be better then the last because he had 20 or some years on that particular someone?

Regardless of Earnhart been in cup for however many years, Gordon was the better driver in the mid 90s. Wouldn't you agree?

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying Gordon was the better driver from Earnhardt's early days. You cant compare his entire career. I'm just comparing what can be compare.

One can also compare the first 8 years of each driver in which case it would look like this...

1979 (Earnhardt's full season) thru 1986

Wins

Earnhardt-20
Gordon-52

Top 5s
Earnhardt-93
Gordon-129

Top 10s
Earnhardt-145
Gordon-166

Champs would still be 2 to 4.
What excuse? I'm not using an excuse, I'm just saying comparing a guy that's 40 to someone that's 25 in most any sport is obviously going to favor the 25 year old. I wasn't making an excuse, it seems to me that the better comparison was the one you did in this post here, but that's just my opinion.

As for the logic part, I have no idea what you are even trying to get at there. I don't know if you think I am trying to knock Gordon or something, but I'm not. When I mentioned 20 years I was just saying that Dale had been in the Cup series 20 years when you were doing the comparison of them, which he had. That doesn't mean anyone has to be there for 20 years to be comparable. I can compare Davey Allison in his 5 or so years to Michael Waltrip in his 25 or so years and I think we would all say Davey was the better driver. Yes Gordon was the best driver in the 90s obviously, I'm not trying to deny that at all, just like I'd say Stewart was the best driver in the early to mid part of this decade. Every great driver has a period in time when they are their best, and a period when they are in there because they are better than most but aren't the best any more. That was what I was pointing out. Gordon was the best in the sport when those stats were going and Dale, while one of the best, wasn't at the top of his game anymore. Just like comparing Gordon today to Shrub, Hamlin or Johnson. Jeff Gordon will go down as one of the top 3 or 4 drivers of all time, whereas the others won't (Johnson will likely be considered a product of a gimmicky system), but Gordon is not one of the best 3 or 4 today for that very reason I was speaking of. That is all I was getting at.
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Gordon Owns
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Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:59 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:53 PM
FedXRcing11
Nov 21 2010, 06:43 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Eat dick Hamlin.
How tasteful. :wink:

Seems like someone's a little upset that his driver hasn't done crap in 2 years and couldn't have even DREAMED of coming close to dethroning Douche Bag Johnson, let alone leading in the points like JAMES DENNIS HAMLIN did. :wink:

And that's okay cause in my eyes Denny is a true champion and put up a better fight than anyone else. His team‘s performance is the only thing that kept the Chase even remotely interesting instead of JJ dominating the points the entire time as usual. Denny and that 11 team are amazing! It will be his cup next year.

GO DENNY!!! :cup1: :woot: :cup1: :D
Wow relax. lol

Suck a dick Denny.

That better?

I'm not the least upset. If I'm upset it would be towards that douche bag Steve, no one else.

I got to see Gordon win 3 of his championships and most of his wins which is more that you can say from watching Hamlin so I'm totally satisfied with what I witness with Gordon.

And about Gordon not doing shit in the past 2 years..I'll do you one better. He hasn't done much since his 2001 championship season.

Still Gordon runs circles on Denny on his worst day.

And you are missing the point, Gordon is a co-owner 5 time champs too

So yeah...

Jeffy wasn't running circles around Denny today! :shifty:
He wasn't running circles period. lol
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Jenny
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 07:05 PM
Jenny
Nov 21 2010, 06:59 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:53 PM
FedXRcing11
Nov 21 2010, 06:43 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Eat dick Hamlin.
How tasteful. :wink:

Seems like someone's a little upset that his driver hasn't done crap in 2 years and couldn't have even DREAMED of coming close to dethroning Douche Bag Johnson, let alone leading in the points like JAMES DENNIS HAMLIN did. :wink:

And that's okay cause in my eyes Denny is a true champion and put up a better fight than anyone else. His team‘s performance is the only thing that kept the Chase even remotely interesting instead of JJ dominating the points the entire time as usual. Denny and that 11 team are amazing! It will be his cup next year.

GO DENNY!!! :cup1: :woot: :cup1: :D
Wow relax. lol

Suck a dick Denny.

That better?

I'm not the least upset. If I'm upset it would be towards that douche bag Steve, no one else.

I got to see Gordon win 3 of his championships and most of his wins which is more that you can say from watching Hamlin so I'm totally satisfied with what I witness with Gordon.

And about Gordon not doing shit in the past 2 years..I'll do you one better. He hasn't done much since his 2001 championship season.

Still Gordon runs circles on Denny on his worst day.

And you are missing the point, Gordon is a co-owner 5 time champs too

So yeah...

Jeffy wasn't running circles around Denny today! :shifty:
He wasn't running circles period. lol
Well.. he was till he blew.. :wink:
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FedXRcing11
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Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:53 PM
I got to see Gordon win 3 of his championships and most of his wins which is more that you can say from watching Hamlin so I'm totally satisfied with what I witness with Gordon.

Jeff's also at the end of his career (or done doing anything notable anyways) obviously and Denny is just getting started. :wink:
Edited by FedXRcing11, Nov 21 2010, 07:07 PM.
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Gordon Owns
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Ram Jam
Nov 21 2010, 07:04 PM
Gordon Owns
Nov 21 2010, 06:44 PM
Theres an excuse for everything.

Going by that logic, no one cant be better then the last because he had 20 or some years on that particular someone?

Regardless of Earnhart been in cup for however many years, Gordon was the better driver in the mid 90s. Wouldn't you agree?

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying Gordon was the better driver from Earnhardt's early days. You cant compare his entire career. I'm just comparing what can be compare.

One can also compare the first 8 years of each driver in which case it would look like this...

1979 (Earnhardt's full season) thru 1986

Wins

Earnhardt-20
Gordon-52

Top 5s
Earnhardt-93
Gordon-129

Top 10s
Earnhardt-145
Gordon-166

Champs would still be 2 to 4.
What excuse? I'm not using an excuse, I'm just saying comparing a guy that's 40 to someone that's 25 in most any sport is obviously going to favor the 25 year old. I wasn't making an excuse, it seems to me that the better comparison was the one you did in this post here, but that's just my opinion.

As for the logic part, I have no idea what you are even trying to get at there. I don't know if you think I am trying to knock Gordon or something, but I'm not. When I mentioned 20 years I was just saying that Dale had been in the Cup series 20 years when you were doing the comparison of them, which he had. That doesn't mean anyone has to be there for 20 years to be comparable. I can compare Davey Allison in his 5 or so years to Michael Waltrip in his 25 or so years and I think we would all say Davey was the better driver. Yes Gordon was the best driver in the 90s obviously, I'm not trying to deny that at all, just like I'd say Stewart was the best driver in the early to mid part of this decade. Every great driver has a period in time when they are their best, and a period when they are in there because they are better than most but aren't the best any more. That was what I was pointing out. Gordon was the best in the sport when those stats were going and Dale, while one of the best, wasn't at the top of his game anymore. Just like comparing Gordon today to Shrub, Hamlin or Johnson. Jeff Gordon will go down as one of the top 3 or 4 drivers of all time, whereas the others won't (Johnson will likely be considered a product of a gimmicky system), but Gordon is not one of the best 3 or 4 today for that very reason I was speaking of. That is all I was getting at.
Oh I know.

I didn't mean you were making an excuse. I meant in general. Like for Dale fans for example. Even when you present them with facts they still rather think their driver is better and you know what? That's just being obnoxious.

Logic part, I meant that by what you said..

"It's kind of hard to put the end of a guys 20+ year career against another dude's prime even if that is the only time the go head to head."

Since "the best" driver is going to be there before the next best driver gets to the scene, that means you cant compare the old and the new simple because the old has lets say 20 something years on the new which lets say have less then 10. That is what I meant there.



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Ram Jam
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Well again these "facts" are also based on a lot of different factors, like we were saying with Jimmie and Gordon, if you go by stats and rhetoric Johnson is better than Gordon, but I don't think you, I, or most any of us on here would agree with that. Dale Sr. built RCR up from nothing more than a startup team into a racing powerhouse so that is going to effect how he runs early on. Jeff Gordon built Hendrick Motorsports from a title contender into THE symbol of what every racing team in Nascar dreams of being. That right there can have a lot of effect on how these "facts" and stats can play out. Jimmie Johnson is the man today, no doubt about it. But without what Jeff Gordon built 10-15 years ago who knows where he would be. He likely wouldn't be the 5 time defending champion that people are calling the best ever.
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jrfan388
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C29Fan
Nov 21 2010, 04:31 PM
Fuck Johnson Fuck the Chase
My thoughts exactly
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