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GM considering bankruptcy, new company
Topic Started: Feb 14 2009, 03:35 PM (671 Views)
JetBlack3
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No, more like a voucher type deal. Only car up to 25k or something. Not sayin everyone gets a car now, first come first serve but still would be better then just paddin Wagoners pockets with nothin to show for it
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Ram Jam
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You got the Volt. Our grandchildren may see it sometime in their lifetime....maybe.
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JetBlack3
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Wow its gonna be out that soon now?
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McLarenCrazy
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Hey quit hating the Volt.

By the way just read an article on how GM ruined Saturn after starting it in 1985. According to the article they would let you come in to dealerships have a cup of coffee, doughnuts, no haggle pricing, and they sang to you sometimes when you picked your car up. The American mid to small car for Americans built by Americans and they sold 1,000,000 in less than 5 years which isn't bad for a small company at that time. However, they said that Chevy became jealous and corporate infighting caused it to become stale so it lost out to the VW, Japanese cars.

I mean how does this person know that Chevy was jealous, the same way some Pontiac fans says Chevrolet ruined their company. I mean is this true or are these people upset their car companies just didn't have a good design for a while and are placing blame? I guess it could be both, I mean I doubt it is just Chevrolet saying no to certain things, but I guess it is the heads of the companies get together in GM board meetings and lay out a plans for the company. For the past 20 or so years that plan was continually getting worse.
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McLarenCrazy
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You know what Rick Wagoner says: if you've got the money I've got the time.
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Ram Jam
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It was the unions for as large part. Saturn was a non union company at first and when GM went to renegotiate their labor contract when it ended the UAW wanted to have Saturns built by their people like all other GM vehicles and GM had to give in to get whatever they wanted from the deal. When they gave in Saturn became just another badge engineered brand with no identity like all of the others became.
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Ram Jam
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Also it wouldn't surprise me I mean Chevy is the meal ticket for GM and if one of the other brands starts to surpass it the guys in charge of Chevy are going to beat it down and sabotage it in order to keep their jobs and make themselves look good. Same as any other company.
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JetBlack3
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They did ruin Pontiac. Pontiac was keepin up with Chevy and everytime they got a little ahead they took it from them. Pontiac has a car they wanted to make...no that will only compete with Chevy, make this instead....Bull fuckin shit. GM had to protect its baby and lost the war from the inside.
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Ram Jam
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One thing I don't understand, and I know you guys don't know the answer, but I'll just throw it out there for ideas. If they are gonna keep Pontiac as the performance brand as they say they are, then wouldn't Pontiac need to have the best performing cars in the company? And to do that it would have to beat the Camaro and Corvette. Why bring the Camaro back only to have it beaten by another car from your own stable? Same with your halo car, the one everyone in the world knows. If you don't surpass those, you aren't the performance division, your just the same as you were before.
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JetBlack3
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Their idea of performance will be slightly better handling. Thats it.
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Ram Jam
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A slightly better handling, definately better looking Impala does not scream performance to me at least.
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McLarenCrazy
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Do you have any examples for this Pontiac theory? Plus I mean that is kind of the concern when mixing multiple companies under one global company (GM), each one has to have a niche.
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Ram Jam
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They should let me redesign the Impala. Maybe then it will be done right. I certainly couldn't do any worse than the last 50 or so years.
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McLarenCrazy
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Killing it is not redesigning it :lol:
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Ram Jam
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I wouldn't kill it. I'd have it so someone would buy the hideous thing. But then again they wouldn't want it to outrun the Camaro I guess, and people may not enjoy tailfins. :shifty:
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McLarenCrazy
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No tailfins how many times do we have to tell you :lol:
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Ram Jam
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I see no viable reason tailfins can't make a comeback. Everything else has. :D
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McLarenCrazy
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Oh I think this is the flag you were looking for, you just zoomed in on it and altered the lighting.

Posted Image
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Ram Jam
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Yes that is exactly it. Good man. :up:
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McLarenCrazy
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Short answer bad design and unnecessary weight is why tailfins can't come back.
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Ram Jam
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You can always compensate for the weight. And they are an awesome design. What makes those 57 Bel Aires so desireable? Tailfins. Exactly.
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Ram Jam
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I think I'm gonna design one in CAD and show you all what the ideal Impala would look like.
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JetBlack3
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Yes Ill give you the best example Josh

Pontiac Banshee

"This did not sit well with GM execs who had marketed the Corvette as their top performer; even today, recent models such as the Camaro and Firebird - even though using the same engine as Corvette - have those engines de-tuned slightly so they will not have as high a horsepower rating as a Corvette. The Banshee would have had equivalent horsepower, yet weighed 500 lb (227 kg) less than the Corvette and so would have been a potent package. It was able to reach 60 mph (97 km/h) in second gear. GM executives instructed DeLorean to cease further development in 1966."
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JetBlack3
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Which then they threw Pontiac a bone and said yall can have a 2nd rate Corvette...

"Originally the car was a "consolation prize" for Pontiac, who had initially wished to produce a two-seat sports car of its own design, based on the original Banshee concept car. However, GM feared such a vehicle would directly compete with Chevrolet's Corvette, and the decision was made to give Pontiac a piece of the pony car market by having them share the F-body platform with Chevrolet. Somewhat disappointed at management's decision, Pontiac went about re-making the F-body in their own image with both styling and engineering changes."
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Ram Jam
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And thus KITT was born.
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