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| Secrets In An Open Republic? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 20 2006, 09:13 AM (1,437 Views) | |
| Nevareion | Mar 20 2006, 09:13 AM Post #1 |
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So now political parties are allowed to have secret forums that no one can see into huh? One more step away from the free and open democratic society Q102 was and one more step towards a divided and adversarial one. A very sad thing to see Q102ers becomming so distrustful of one another that they feel the need to have secrets and hide their comments away. Sadder still to see our forum fragmenting and areas dying off while we create new and closed ones for little groups. I am greatly saddened by the way the region is going. I shall be considering my continuing participation. |
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| Cruzendale | Mar 20 2006, 01:38 PM Post #2 |
Only member of COMP
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Can we (read I) have a secret area, too?
:) I agree with Nev. What is soooo special in the party politics that the "others" are not allowed to read the threads. If they steel your ideas, it just means, they are great for the region. And that is what you want with your parties! |
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| lamedud | Mar 20 2006, 03:27 PM Post #3 |
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Councillor of Q102
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I don't really see the problem. We've all seen the damage that has been caused by people snooping into others forums - especially with the whole slander thing....
<_< Do politicians not keep anything secret these days? I think not. Parliament is for discussion. |
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| Joe Bobs | Mar 20 2006, 04:10 PM Post #4 |
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Former Delegate of Q102
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The passworded forums are not intended for policy discussion. None of the political parties have ever stored away ideas as a proverbial carrot for election, but instead suggest their ideas to whoever is in government for the beneft of the region. I for one would hate to see an end to this and I think we all would. Passworded forums are solely for the discussion of party tactics. Their is absolutely no point in discussing tactics in an open forum as your opponent can stay one stay one step ahead of your plans. Without tactical discussion, there is no need for a partisan system, as all parties may as well be one. (I am looking ahead of the end of the Coalition government.) Who exactly is to blame for areas of the forums dying off? I for one don't know. Perhaps instead of seeking blame seeking options of improvement is better. this is the aim of the Coaliton government, so I think the question of inactivity should be left until the Coalition has taken effect. I se no evidence of small groups forming in Q102 at all. This is as much a community as always. Politics remain IC and OOC everyone remains friendly regardless. I think your assertion is unfair and unfounded Nev. I don't usually disagree with you but I do think you're wrong here. I think it would be a huge loss to the region if you left, as I'm sure we all do, so I hope you would not leave over this, which is, I reiterate, a purely IC issue. If you look elsewhere in the forums there is no "distrust" or "divide." |
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| Zakaroo | Mar 20 2006, 06:45 PM Post #5 |
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Priceless National Treasure
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OK guys and girls lets just calm down abit here. This is getting way to blown outta proportion. I will try to address everything here. @nev-I am saddened to see you talking like this. I really really am. I am even more disappointed that this reaction has come after a discision I made about this. I dont think you are being totally fair saying that there are more and more little groups forming, however i dont think you are unfair saying that the forum is dying of in places, as this cant be denied. The question is not to place blame etc. I think that politics isnt always as open as we would like, and much of what goes on is very open, however its more the case that people choose not to comment etc. Personally for me I can see both sides of having a private forum for parties. I can see both sides of the arguement tbh. I do think that parties are well within their rights to ask for private forums, however is this a reason why so many people are choosing not to get involved? as the 'juicy' stuff cant be accessed? I dont know what the solution is tbh. I think perhaps the first move would be to sort out this coalition and see if that will help with regional numbers/activity. Perhaps looking at encouraging ind. politicians rather the parties would be a way to solves this issue that so many people seem to have over parties. However we must all remember that Q102 has always been open to change and such, and we much try to suit as many as we can. Can I ask people, in a ideal world, what system would you have in q102-i.e. parties, individuals what? It seems to me many people are quite bothered by the current system, so what would people pick if they could? |
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| Joe Bobs | Mar 20 2006, 07:10 PM Post #6 |
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Former Delegate of Q102
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I'm quite happy with the system, but it would be better if we had a general public. hopefully this will come. Also, as for said "juicy stuff," the UOC's juicy stuff will be open still. All we're having protected is tactics, which is rather dry reading for non-members really. I'd like to direct people to forum "Should Political Party Forums have Passwords?" found here but please comment here and not there. I was just going to paste my comments over but they need their contexts, otherwise they seem harsh. Also, one only has to read from Nev's comment onwards, as before that it is rather straight-forward and dry. |
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| Nevareion | Mar 20 2006, 10:55 PM Post #7 |
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I am not criticising you Zak and I am not commenting here in anything other than IC. I am upset that anyone sees a need to keep secrets from one another. I do not mean the Council as by neccesity that should be priivate. The Free Port Act does specifically require all forums except private government ones be open to view. [edit] On the subject of parties I think it has not helped. Instead of focusing on the region there has been focus on parties. This has been a prime cause in my opinion of several things: A fair few people coming here less Parliament is dead The government is dead Most forums are dead. The only activity is in this forum. What rights give parties the abiltiy to demand something the law says is the preserve of the Council? We had a general public but we scared them off, even the ambassadors are drifting away too now. :2cents: |
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| Joe Bobs | Mar 21 2006, 10:21 AM Post #8 |
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Former Delegate of Q102
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You have absolutely no evidence for these claims. there is plenty of activity outside this forum. The Rants and Spam Games forums are incredibly active. There a few active RP forums. There is activity elsewhere too. I don't think it's fair to just say soemthing when it is a complete fallacy. You're just plain wrong Nev. As for the Free Port Act, have we not been changing it bit by bit and abandoning sections anyway? |
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| Nevareion | Mar 21 2006, 01:16 PM Post #9 |
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No we didn't. I have had enough of arguing. That is the basic reason I dislike the parties and secrets and so on that they bring. I will not be posting in the politics forum again unless as a mod. |
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| Zakaroo | Mar 21 2006, 03:31 PM Post #10 |
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Priceless National Treasure
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OK stop this. This is getting FAR too serious. I think that we need to accept that we cant please everyone. So, heres what I am going to do, and I am sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am going to put this to a vote. I am going to lead the people choose what they want regarding these forums. Thats the only fair way to do this. What I would say is the following. Nev has got a point when he says the much of the forums have quietened down, if I am totally honest, parliament has died off. This is partly due to inactivity in the PPP (pc's inactivity due to health reasons and my resignation kinda left the PPP with no direction to it) its partly because parties are very concerned with the ACTIONS of politicians rather the the POLICIES being brought forward. This to me isnt true politics. The aim of these political parties was to give the region accountability, a opposition government and some fun. I do think too much time is spent trying to tip toe around so that no-one is upset of given an excuse to pick up on bad points the other party is doing. I for one, when a councillor hated the fact that I was on my fellow councillors back about recruitment, when 1. I knew they were already stretched and 2. I recieved no help from other people (with the exception of nev and cruz) who else in this region recruits? I am sorry but I think its time this was said. Too much time is being spent arguing for example of the neutrality issue, however the countless time that we have all, myself included have spent bickering could have been spent recruiting, trying to get new people to this wonderful region. I think that we need to get back to basics. Yes if people want parties then I am all for that, but at one point new people who came here were offered sound advice about interesting and fun areas of the forums...now, the are jumped on to join a party. What may be one persons (and again I am not having a go here) but what may be one persons idea of fun, isnt another. For example, I dont like RP, I love reading them, but I havent a creative bone in my body, if when I had joined I had had that shoved in my face, I would have left. Perhaps what we need is for politics to once again be kepy to the correct forums, advertised at the correct time. Those people who enjoy RP, for example nev, to be left to do that. New people get welcomed like they used to. I do sometimes wonder where all this is going tbh. We all complain about activity when very few of us actually do anything about it. We complain about the activity of the forums, well alright then, lets all try to post in the areas that interest us rather then just politics? Surely those few tiny steps would make a huge amount of difference? Thats my thoughts anyways, so the question is, what are we going to do |
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| Joe Bobs | Mar 21 2006, 04:45 PM Post #11 |
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Former Delegate of Q102
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Well said Zak. All of it. Very true. Damn you're good! This has gone too far. I am perfecty happy to go with whatever the vote says. I hope Nev sees that I'm only arguing the issue and it's not in any way personal. Hopefully, the Coalition government will change a lot of what Zak said, and we can review the situation at a later date. As for recruitment, it's an area I'll admit I have not been active at all in, but I plan to start. This week isn't any good for me, but next week I'll be right on it. |
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| Nevareion | Mar 21 2006, 06:31 PM Post #12 |
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Breaking my word to say yes I do understand that Joe B :) It's the party politics I am not enjoying, not the people! |
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| Zakaroo | Mar 21 2006, 10:29 PM Post #13 |
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Priceless National Treasure
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do you think you would continue to break your words nev and get involved again in politics? and thanks JB, I think theres a lot of improvement for everyone here, and that we seem to have a lot of active people, but because they're all in the two parties they are limited, i think this needs to be addressed and many more people start taking a active role aroud here |
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| Nevareion | Mar 22 2006, 09:20 PM Post #14 |
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No....dammit! Seriously though, no, it isn't for me as it is. |
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| Cruzendale | Mar 22 2006, 09:35 PM Post #15 |
Only member of COMP
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I want to point out, that not all active people are in one of the two parties. B) |
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