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| CC 100 Project; update | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 8 2009, 09:31 AM (343 Views) | |
| Bob Balk | Mar 8 2009, 09:31 AM Post #1 |
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I got it all back together yesterday and drove the tractor up the driveway. I replaced and repaired several wires and connectors at the earlier advice that many carb issues are electrical. The tractor ran fine under load going up my steep driveway. But it went right back to surging on the way back down. I find that I can hold the throttle valve open by hand and it runs great. However it surges because the governor arm keeps pulling the throttle open and closed. The carb has been rebuilt. Can someone tell me if the governor or linkage can be adjusted to correct the problem of surging or is it still a carb issue? I freed up the clutch plates no problem. However I noticed that I did not have any 3rd gear. So I looked at the clutch and the main spring is broken in a couple spots and I am not getting any pressure on the clutch arm. I am going to have to take out the clutch assembly and replace this spring. Any tips or things to look for in doing this job? Any other parts I should replace, bearing, etc? I changed the oil but the oil plug has been cross threaded in the past and is now leaking. Is this standard pipe thread? My thought is to buy the proper tap and refresh the threads in the engine and buy a new plug. Any tips on this? I modified the front frame installation which still does not provide enough clearance to remove and install the drive belt. However I put some longer bolts in the rear two holes on this frame. So when it comes time to change the belt I simply have to loosen the four bolts and can tip the whole frame forward to allow clearance for the belt. If I find that I am doing frequent belt changes I will cut a notch in the frame to allow clearance for the PTO actuator lever. I still don't understand this design. It simply makes no sense. I did check the engine mount position and it is in the right position. The crank seems to be the proper length. But it just doesn't work right. I removed my ignition switch and brought it to the cub dealer. They had a key for $5. So I reinstalled the switch and got it all wired up so it is back to working properly! I cleaned my fuel filter as I had some sediment in the bowl. I took off the filter screen and blew it out with carb cleaner. Then I reinstalled and it didn't immediately start to fill with fuel. So I cranked the engine and fuel started to fill the bowl. Is that normal or should the fuel be pouring in there more easily? I don't think this is the cause of my surging problem as I can basically over ride the governor arm and get it to run fine so it is able to draw enough fuel when demanded. But I may need to re-flush the fuel tank? I removed a lot of caked on grease on the frame and steering linkage. I could get grease into one of the steering knuckles but not the other. I will have to disassemble that knuckle to remove old grease and get the fitting to work so I can keep it greased. I will also have to try to grease and adjust the steering gear as there is a good bit of play. I will probably do that when I am working on getting the drive shaft out. I removed the old choke cable which was a bit of a pain getting up under the dash. I need to replace the whole assembly as the outer casing is split and the knob is gone. For now I can easily manipulate the choke from the seat by reaching forward. Eventually I would like a new cable. Any tips on where to purchase a replacement assembly? It was $32 at the Cub dealer which seemed a bit dear for a choke cable. I adjusted the brake which works great! I adjusted the seat back a little for more leg room. So my next projects are the clutch assembly repair and figuring out the carb and surging problem. Thank you everyone for reading my postings and your great advice! |
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| Matt G. | Mar 8 2009, 09:52 AM Post #2 |
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Let's see...The fact that it smooths out under load makes me think that you simply have the carb adjusted too rich. Lean the main jet about a 1/4 turn and see if that helps. Another way to check is to quickly rev the engine up from idle to WOT; if it stumbles and you see black, sooty smoke, that's another sign it's too rich. Now do the same thing from WOT to idle. If it backfires a lot...too rich. You're probably going to have to adjust the carb frequently at first here until you've had the engine running regularly for awhile. All the debris in your tank will try to work its way to the sediment bowl, and some may get get into the carb and cause trouble. I've done a few clutch rebuilds. I'd do it right and get a new main spring, teaser spring, throwout bearing, and friction disc. It'd be good to true up the pressure plates on a lathe as well. You'll also want to get new spirol pins. I'm guessing that the driveshaft itself is going to be worn out as well. It's pretty easy to make a new one out of 5/8" cold-rolled steel. |
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| dyt4000 | Mar 8 2009, 12:00 PM Post #3 |
Cub Cadet 109
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Some folks like to go with a heavier clutch spring for better grip and less slip. http://www.gardentractorpullingtips.com/clutch.htm While I know your not using yours as a "puller", there is some good info on that link...the spring info is towards the bottom. Edited by dyt4000, Mar 8 2009, 12:01 PM.
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| Bob Balk | Mar 10 2009, 09:07 AM Post #4 |
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dyt4000 - thanks for the link. I talked with Brian last night and I am going to ship him some parts to rework. Matt G. - thanks for the tip on the fuel mixture. I leaned out the mix and got it to run great at full throttle. But it still won't idle right. I am going to send Brian my carb and have him look at it. I may have missed something when I rebuilt it as I don't do this very often. Brian seems very knowledgeable and maybe can get it to work properly at idle. Here is the next update for those of you who care to read. I wish I could add some photos. I really got into it now that I got the engine started and running. It doesn't smoke and runs just great so I know it is worth putting in the effort. The main clutch spring was broken so I went about removing the driveshaft. That rear spiral pin is a BEAR to remove. It took me about 2 hours to get it out. I drilled, filed, punched, hammered, vise gripped, heated and applied penetrating fluid to get it to budge. I ended up breaking it in half and removing it by bits. It did NOT want to leave!!! But I overcame and got it out. The front pin was quite easy to remove with a bit of penetrating fluid and a punch. Of course I had to remove the engine to get out the drive assembly. The clutch plate looked fine but the pressure plates could be resurfaced. So I am sending it to Brian Miller for him to recondition it as I think it would save me a lot of time and it would be done properly. Since I am going to have a week or so of down time waiting for the clutch and carb to return I am going to go through the steering gear, front axle and front wheel pins. They all need to be cleaned, greased and adjusted. I also noticed a couple more suspect wires that I will repair. I will also get a choke cable installed. While the engine is out I am going to repair the drain plug which appears to be the only thing leaking on the engine. I am also going to drill and tap the point cover holes which are both stripped or else I am using a #8 bolt in a #10 hole? Either way I am going to get the cover to install properly. I am also going to look at the PTO to see if it is installed properly. It is the only other thing that I can see which may be giving me a clearance problem for the drive belt. This has been a fun project. I am hoping to get the tractor running well so I can start asking about what sort of attachments and implements I can get! |
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| Yosemite Sam | Mar 11 2009, 08:41 AM Post #5 |
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Bob Balk Glad to hear that things are starting to go your way. Keep us updated. |
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| Bob Balk | Mar 11 2009, 04:25 PM Post #6 |
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I got the steering gear out. Wasn't too much work. But I discovered that the top of the shaft has had a bolt welded on to the end because it appears that the threads on the shaft that held on the steering wheel had gone bad. I wondered why the threads protruded so far past the wheel, now I know. I am a little concerned about what I might find inside. I got the wheels off and the steering knuckles out. One wheel bearing felt a little suspect. I really need to remove them and clean them up to tell. The pins actually looked good. I cleared the one grease fitting that was plugged by heating it up a little with my propane torch and squirting in some fresh grease. It all needs a really good cleaning before it is reassembled. I am stuck on the axle pin. I removed the roll pin which wasn't doing anything. It appears that it had sheared off long ago as it came out in 3 pieces. The axle pin is frozen in the axle It has been rotating on the outer two frame carrier lugs and not on the axle itself. I used penetrating fluid, heat and a hammer, then a bigger hammer, then an 8 lb sledge. No joy. It didn't even budge. I definitely need some help on how to get the axle pin out. I cleaned all around to see if there is some other pin or something holding it in but didn't see anything. The axle rotates freely on the outer two frame lugs but not at all on the axle. I tried grabbing the little stub end with a vise grip and that was just silly. I put a punch in the pin hole up front and tried twisting and just bent my punch. I obviously need to replace the pin as it is wearing the frame lugs. My next thought is to start drilling from both ends until it clears the frame. That is going to be very difficult at best. Any suggestions? I need help!!! |
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| Matt G. | Mar 11 2009, 04:40 PM Post #7 |
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Sounds like the pin is really rusted stuck in the axle casting. I'd use a hacksaw to cut the pin between the bushings in the frame and the axle, and then heat the axle casting and then try to knock out what remains of the pivot pin. |
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| agitch | Mar 11 2009, 05:08 PM Post #8 |
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Bob, I'm not that familiar with that model cub but when you put the carb back on, make sure you have sensitivity set correctly on the governor spring. It can surge and hunt if it's set wrong. |
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| Bob Balk | Mar 11 2009, 05:16 PM Post #9 |
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Matt, I can't get in there with a hacksaw. It is a U shaped channel and the tolerance between the frame and the axle would not allow the blade even if you could move it back and forth to cut. That is why I was thinking about drilling out from each end. Do you think it is just that stuck? There are no other connections that I am missing? AGitch, how do you adjust the governor spring?!?! That could be my problem for sure. Is there info on how to adjust available on line? Would this also affect idle? I messed with it a little, but had no clue as to what I was doing and it didn't change much. |
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| Matt G. | Mar 11 2009, 05:52 PM Post #10 |
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They are pretty much always that stuck. I guess then you could just drill the center of it with progressively larger drills until you can either knock it out or collapse it. 40 years of PO mistreatment = stuck axle pivot pin. Very common. You can also download the manual for your engine for free from www.kohlerengines.com and click engines --> classic engines --> k-series --> download manuals...that'll tell you how to adjust the governor. |
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| Bob Balk | Mar 13 2009, 06:54 PM Post #11 |
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The axle pin is a nightmare. I got the axle out of the frame but most of the pin is still in the axle. I am going to take it to a shop and have it pressed or reamed out. Absolutely absurd how much work I put into that job. I borrowed a bearing pin press from a friend which got it out part way. I had to crank the press and then wack it with a sledge and the pin would fire forward about an 1/8" at a time. I got it about an inch and then it stopped. So I decided to drill it out from the other side to get the axle off the frame at least. I only have drill bits up to 1/2" here. Then I found a 3/4" bit for a brace. So I drilled the last hole with a bit and brace by hand. It was really stupid but at least the axle is out and I can take it somewhere for help. I am done. :Dead Horse I got a bunch of parts, including the clutch sent to Miller's today. I am looking forward to getting that back. I got the holes for the point cover tapped out. Then I went to install the point wire and the end broke off. I can't win... Thanks for the reference to the engine manual. I looked up the governor sensitivity setting and think I have that figured out right. I don't think that would affect my low speed idle? I got all the other parts cleaned up and ready to go back together once I get my parts back from Brian. The steering gear had me very worried because the top threads that hold on the wheel were destroyed and the PO welded on a bolt instead. The grease fitting was completely missing and there was a little water in there when I pulled the adjusting nut. But it was actually pretty good considering it is 40+ years old. I think some fresh grease and it should work fine. I will probably go ahead and install a grease fitting just in case! I am done with it for a while. That axle took a lot out of me. I am happy to have to wait for parts from Brian. |
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| Matt G. | Mar 13 2009, 07:03 PM Post #12 |
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Ok, I re-read your posts from before, but I couldn't find it...what's it doing wrong at idle again? |
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| Bob Balk | Mar 14 2009, 04:02 PM Post #13 |
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Matt, I basically have no idle. I can get it about half way down from WOT and it starts to sputter and the governor arm starts pulling it up and down and it quits. My friends Dad has an old Wheelhorse which I think has a similar engine. When his is at idle is seems like it is barely turning over. Mine is not even close to that. That said...I pulled the carb and found a little crud in the end two holes of the main jet. I also adjusted the float again. It was a little off, but not much. I used an 11/64" drill bit instead of just measuring which I read about somewhere else after I had the carb installed. I tested the little passage between the main jet and the idle jet by blowing through it and it seems open. I didn't pull out the welch plug when I rebuilt the carb as my rebuild kit did not include a new one. I read on Brian's website that you can replace the welch plug with a threaded pipe fitting plug. But I didn't reinstall and test it as the engine is not in the tractor any more. I sent the carb to Brian to inspect. We will see what he says. It was pretty well beat before I rebuilt it. Maybe he has some good ideas. |
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| ChrisA | Mar 15 2009, 11:42 AM Post #14 |
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About your cross-threaded spark plug hole, the best way to fix this is to "Helicoil" it. You buy the appropriate helicoil kit from any decent parts house. Then you basically tap the hole out to a larger size and then install a helicoil, which is like a spring with a diamond shaped cross section. This fits in the new threads you have just tapped and forms a new thread that will fit your actual plug. Last time I bought one it came as a kit with the tap, the helicoil and the installation tool. I have used these on diesel injectors, so they can stand any reasonable pressure. |
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