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| Mosque at Ground Zero? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 14 2010, 05:02 PM (1,284 Views) | |
| Gandy | Aug 24 2010, 11:14 AM Post #21 |
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NM Headliner
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| USCHAMP | Aug 25 2010, 04:40 PM Post #22 |
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Has no zazz
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It's all a conspiracy anyway guys. This has all been in the planning for the past 300 years. The founding fathers were really Muslims that had to practice in secret, thus the reason for forming the Freemasons. During the rituals they practiced behind closed doors they secretly plotted to build a meganation, set Christianity as the most practiced faith in their soon to be newly established nation, build the largest city on earth and then in the future when the country has sunk into the depths of hedonism attack the infidels on their own turf. This plan would help secure their place in Heaven next to Allah himself and would show dirty Christians an Jews the error in their ways. 9/11 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY FLOURIDE INTHE DRINKING WATER MIND CONTROL MIND CONTROL MIND CONTROL MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE ASSASINATE ASSASINATE COMMUNISM CASTRO COMMUNISM SOVIET UNION NEW WORLD ORDER |
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| Silo | Aug 25 2010, 06:24 PM Post #23 |
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NM Legend
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LOL, typical brainwashed, uneducated pop-culture loving faggotry at it's finest. Hey Champ, since you're so smart and have the time to mock people's beliefs, in this case, a fucking fact (not sure whether you don't believe flouride is put into drinking water, or if you don't believe it is poison to the human body) please, if you will OH INTELLIGENT PEDOPHILE REDNECK - please debate some of these points - http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm As far as 9/11 I'd love you to educate me on that too. Please explain why 9/11 happened, how it happened, and debunk the following conspiracy "theories" - - Why our airport security went 0/19, even after checking 2 of the terrorists - Why Bush said he watched the first plane hit the first tower. - Why Bush and Cheney refused to testify under oath and solo - Why the pilot's ex-teaches say they could not fly the simplest of planes, let alone make a impossible manuever into the pentagon. Oh, and debate this link too - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/08/13/nila-sagadevan-911-the-impossibility-of-flying-heavy-aircraft-without-training/ - What exactly happened in Shanksville, or wait was it Ohio, let me know Champ. I was told by TV that a plane crashed there and there were people on the plane but the pix didnt show that stuff I guess it just disintegrated because of the crash impact and the bodies flew up to heaven. Did you see that one champerz? - Please let me know how the towers came down and why. - Please let me know why Tower 7 came down. - Why Bush and Rice "couldn't imagine" terrorists using planes as weapons (I can't wait for this response) - Why Clinton didn't kill Bin Laden when he had the chance - Counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke and multiple other countries warning Bush of the danger Al Qaeda poses and the numerous warnings by other countries sent to Bush about an incoming attack - in April 2001, NORAD planned to practice a scenario in which a terrorist group hijacks a plane and crashes it into the Pentagon, but it was rejected by the Joint Chiefs of Staff as being too unrealistic. - April 2001, The New York Port Authority granted a 99-year lease of the twin towers and four other buildings to Silverstein Properties (who already owns the WTC 7) making it the most expensive real estate transaction in New York history. (good timing huh?) - Also, about Silverstein, why he is on video saying he gave the word to "pull it". What other event would "pull it" refer to besides imploding building 7? - Again, in April 2001, The Global Hawk makes aviation history by becoming the first unmanned aircraft to fly across the Pacific Ocean. (hmm, just another coincidence. definitely doesn't make sense with the Shanksville plane right? lol) - The Denver Council on Foreign Relations (DCFR) discuss in their meeting about 'The Development of Homeland Defense' that Washington and New York are the "most likely targets" of a terrorist attack, the scenario of a hijacked plane crashing into a "high-value target", and mentions that the alleged WTC '93 bomber's original plan was to blow up one WTC tower to fall into the other WTC tower, thus "collapsing both". - Why fighter pilots were on a "training exercise" hundreds of miles away (just another crazy coincidence) - Convicted terrorist provided U.S. officials with very specific info about a terrorist attack in which some of this information is used in the Aug. 6th memo. Another Lost Opportunity A convicted terrorist was providing U.S. officials with very specific information about a terrorist attack three months before 9/11. "In the spring of 2001, one of the U.S. government’s most valuable terror informants gave the FBI a far more alarming account of Al Qaeda plans to attack inside the United States than has ever been publicly disclosed, according to newly available court documents. Algerian expatriate Ahmed Ressam, whose sentencing for a Millennium-eve plot to blow up the Los Angeles airport was unexpectedly postponed today, told bureau interrogators nearly four years ago that Al Qaeda commander Abu Zubaydah had been discussing plans to smuggle terrorist operatives and explosives into the country for the purpose of launching a strike on U.S. soil, the documents show. The fresh documents, released in federal court in Seattle in recent days, shed new light on an issue that dominated last year’s hearings by the September 11 commission: precisely how much did the U.S. government know about Al Qaeda plans to strike inside the country in the summer of 2001 when the attacks on the World Trade Towers and Pentagon were in their final stages? Perhaps no better sign of that was the inclusion of some of Resssam’s information in the now famous presidential daily briefing (PDB)—entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”—that was presented to President Bush by the CIA on Aug. 6, 2001. The fact that Ressam’s information was the basis for at least part of the PDB to Bush first became known last year when the 9/11 commission hearings forced the White House to make the long-disputed document public. But it turns out, according to the new court documents, the information from Ressam that was contained in the PDB was watered down and seemed far more bland than what the Algerian terrorist was actually telling the FBI. “Abu Zubaydah asked Mr. Ressam to send him original Canadian passports so Abu Zubaydah could get people to America,” Ressam told the FBI that day, according to the summary. “Abu Zubaydah wanted an operation in the U.S. Abu Zubaydah also talked to Mr. Ressam about need to get explosives into U.S. for operation, but this wasn’t re: Mr. Ressam’s operation,” meaning explosives that could be used for an attack other than the one planned for the Los Angeles airport. The debriefing report went on to say: “Mr. Ressam does not know if any [explosives] made it to U.S. Once possible operation initiated, operators would not talk about it to anyone, including Abu Zubaydah.” Still, the apparently watered-down nature of the PDB may partly explain why President Bush later told the commission that he viewed the August 2001 briefing as “historical in nature” and that he never followed up with either national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice or Attorney General John Ashcroft to direct them to push more aggressively to identify Al Qaeda cells inside the United States." - Newsweek (04/28/05) - June 27, 2001 - The Defense Department's budget request for fiscal year 2002 is $328.9 billion, a $37.8 billion (or 11.5%) increase over last years budget request, and is released four months later than previous and future requests. (another coincidence though) - July 2001 - U.S. plans to invade Afghanistan for an attack on Osama bin Laden and the Taliban by October 2001. US 'planned attack on Taleban' "A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks. Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Mr Naik told the BBC that at the meeting the US representatives told him that unless Bin Laden was handed over swiftly America would take military action to kill or capture both Bin Laden and the Taleban leader, Mullah Omar. The wider objective, according to Mr Naik, would be to topple the Taleban regime and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place - possibly under the leadership of the former Afghan King Zahir Shah. He said that he was in no doubt that after the World Trade Center bombings this pre-existing US plan had been built upon and would be implemented within two or three weeks. And he said it was doubtful that Washington would drop its plan even if Bin Laden were to be surrendered immediately by the Taleban." - BBC (09/18/01) Attack and counter-attack, Evidence suggests that Washington had planned to move against Bin Laden in the summer. Was the attack on America a pre-emptive strike? "These are the troubling questions raised by the Guardian's disclosure at the weekend that the Taliban received a specific warning - passed during secret diplomacy in Berlin in July - that the Bush team had prepared a new plan to topple the entire Afghan regime militarily unless they handed Bin Laden over. The Guardian's disclosures are proving controversial. Some analysts say Bin Laden had evidently prepared his suicide pilots up to a year beforehand, thus making Washington's behaviour in July beside the point. Others ask why US threats of military strikes in July should be of any more concern to Bin Laden than previous episodes, such as Clinton's rocketing of his camps. Reliable western military sources say a US contingency plan existed on paper by the end of the summer to attack Afghanistan from the north." - Guardian (09/26/01) (See also: June 2001 - India and Iran will "facilitate" U.S. and Russian plans for "limited military action" against the Taliban; August 2001 - Taliban warns the U - July 2001 - U.S. and Italian officials were warned that Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations. RESPONSE TO TERROR,THE INVASION Italy Tells of Threat at Genoa Summit; Plot: Officials there took seriously a report that terrorists would try to crash a plane to kill Bush and other leaders. "U.S. and Italian officials were warned in July that Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations, officials said Wednesday. Italian officials took the reports seriously enough to prompt extraordinary precautions during the July summit of the Group of 8 nations, including closing the airspace over Genoa and stationing antiaircraft guns at the city's airport. But a U.S. official said that American counter-terrorism experts considered the warning "unsubstantiated." In either case, the reports suggest that Western governments were aware that terrorists might one day use a hijacked airplane as a suicide weapon--as they did Sept. 11 in attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The Genoa warning was disclosed last week by Italian Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco Fini. In remarks on a television talk show reported by the Italian news agency ANSA, Fini said: "Many people were ironic about the Italian secret services. But in fact they got the information that there was the possibility of an attack against the U.S. president using an airliner. That's why we closed the airspace and installed the missiles. Those who made cracks should now think a little." An attack on the summit would have endangered not only President Bush, but also British Prime Minister Tony Blair, French President Jacques Chirac, Russian President Vladimir V. Putin and others. In an interview published Sept. 21 in the French newspaper Le Figaro, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said his government provided information to the United States about possible attacks on the Genoa summit by Saudi-born terrorist Osama bin Laden. "There was a question of an airplane stuffed with explosives. As a result, precautions were taken." White House aides refused to comment on the reports. "We just don't talk about security arrangements," spokeswoman Anna Perez said. But a U.S. official outside the White House said the Genoa reports were received and discounted. "There were some press reports citing what we subsequently determined was unsubstantiated information," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In any case, the possibility of suicide hijackings has been known to U.S. counter-terrorism officials for several years. On Christmas Eve 1994, Algerian terrorists hijacked an Air France Airbus and planned to blow it up over the Eiffel Tower in Paris. French troops stormed the plane as it was refueling in Marseilles and killed the hijackers. The hijackers' organization, the Armed Islamic Group, is now believed to be part of Bin Laden's Al Qaeda network. In 1996, a terrorist captured in Manila told Philippine police that Al Qaeda planned to hijack 11 U.S. airliners simultaneously and to fly a plane into CIA headquarters near Washington." - LA Times (09/27/01) [Wayback], Newsday (09/27/01) [Wayback] - • July 2001 - Armed pilots banned 2 months before 9/11 "A 40-year-old Federal Aviation Administration rule that allowed commercial airline pilots to be armed was inexplicably rescinded two months before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, leading aviation security experts to lay at least some of the blame for the tragedy at the feet of airlines, none of which took advantage of the privilege while it was in effect. But in July 2001 – just two months prior to the Sept. 11 attacks – the rule was rescinded." (lolol) - July 2001 - Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC 7, signs a 99-year lease for the rest of the WTC just six weeks before the attacks. - July 4, 2001 - Osama Bin Laden, wanted by the US government since 1998, undergoes medical treatment at the American Hospital in Dubai, United Arab Emirates where he is met by a local CIA chief. - July 10, 2001 - FBI agent Kenneth Williams urges the bureau's headquarters in his "Phoenix memo" to investigate Middle Eastern men enrolled in American flight schools who are supporters of Osama bin Laden, suggesting the schools could be used for terror operations. - July 23, 2001 - Suspected Sept. 11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), receives a U.S. visa despite U.S. authorities chasing him since 1994 and a 1996 indictment linking him with earlier terrorist plots. - August 2001 - After only 8 months on the job, Bush takes a month long "working vacation" in Crawford, TX. - August 2001 - The Taliban warns the U.S. of a huge attack from Osama bin Laden. "An aide to the former Taleban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, has revealed that he was sent to warn American diplomats and the United Nations that Osama bin Laden was due to launch a huge attack on American soil. Neither organization heeded the warning, which was given just weeks before the 11 September attacks. The attack was imminent, he discovered, and it would be huge. Bin Laden hoped to kill thousands of US citizens. The minister was deeply worried that the US military would react with deadly vengeance against Afghanistan." - BBC (09/07/02) - August 6, 2001 - In a CIA memo titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US", drafted the day before the anniversary of the Al Qaeda linked U.S. embassy bombings in Africa, George W. Bush is warned of possible terrorist attacks and plane hijackings in the U.S. from Osama bin Laden, but this revelation isn't made public until May 16, 2002. - August 17, 2001? - U.S. Ignored Warnings From French "A key point in unraveling why the FBI failed to follow up leads on Al Qaeda terrorism now centers on the Bureau's contemptuously brushing aside warnings from French intelligence a few days before 9-11. In a footnote to her May 21, 2002, letter to FBI director Robert Mueller, Coleen Rowley, the director of the FBI's Minneapolis office, cryptically alluded to the FBI supervising agent in Washington being given info on the so-called 20th hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui, by the French last summer, but choosing not to act on it. French officials were long known to have been frustrated with Washington's neglect. "Their discussion turned to some of the serious threats made against American interests in Europe, specifically one targeting the U.S. Embassy in Paris," Le Monde continued. "During these talks, the DST directed the American visitors' attention to a Moroccan-born Frenchman who had been detained in the United States since August 17 and who was considered to be a key high-level Islamic fundamentalist. But the American delegation, preoccupied above all with questions of administrative procedure, paid no attention to this 'first alarm,' basically concluding that they were going to take no one's advice, and that an attack on American soil was inconceivable. It took September 11 for the FBI to show any real interest in this man, who we now know attended two aviation training schools, as did at least seven of the kamikaze terrorists." In her report, Rowley presents a picture of an agency asleep at the wheel." - Village Voice (05/28/02) - August 25, 2001 - Raytheon and the U.S. Air Force successfully auto lands a pilot-less FedEx Boeing 727 six times at Holloman AFB, NM using a military GPS landing system that will enable ground control to take control of a hijacked airplane and force land it. - September 4, 2001 - The White House approves plans to invade Afghanistan. Finger-Pointing On Anti-Terror Plan "An official said one such plan was drafted during the early days of the Bush administration, but was only ready for presentation to the president on Sept. 10, a day before the attacks. Top Bush administration officials approved what McCormack called the "comprehensive strategy to eliminate al Qaeda" exactly one week before the Sept. 11 attacks." - CBS (08/05/01) War not realistic option before 9/11 "Secretary of State Colin Powell testified Tuesday that the option of an invasion was not seriously considered until a week before the Sept. 11 attacks, when Bush's senior foreign policy advisers approved a detailed counterterrorism strategy." - USA Today (03/23/04) - September 4, 2001 - Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co., partially owned by the Israeli government, moves out of the 16th floor of the WTC. - September 6, 2001 - A two week heightened security alert at the WTC is lifted and bomb-sniffing dogs there were abruptly removed and officials had recently taken steps to secure the towers against "aerial attacks" by installing bulletproof windows and fireproof doors in the 22nd-floor computer command center. - September 6, 2001 - Large number of "put" options are placed on United Airlines stock betting that the stock price would fall. - September 7, 2001 - Large number of "put" options are placed on Boeing stock betting that the stock price would fall. - September 7, 2001 - The State Department issues a worldwide alert warning that American citizens may be the target of a terrorist groups linked to al Qaeda. "Most recently, on Friday, Sept. 7, the State Department issued a worldwide alert warning "American citizens may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to [Osama bin Laden's] al Qaeda organization." That report cited information gathered in May that suggested an attack somewhere was imminent. It warned that individuals in al Qaeda "have not distinguished between official and civilian targets." - ABC (09/15/01) - September 10, 2001 - A group of top Pentagon officials cancel their travel plans for the next morning because of security concerns. "On Sept. 10, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns." - MSNBC (09/24/01) [Reprinted at: wanttoknow.info] - September 10, 2001 - Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld announces that the Pentagon has lost track of $2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS of military spending. - September 10, 2001 - Howard Rubenstein, legendary public relations man who represents Larry Silverstein, the WTC, the State of Israel, and who would later play a leading role in publicizing Silverstein's claim that the 9/11 attacks should count as two distinct events, thereby ensuring a double payout from his insurers, cancels an 8 a.m. meeting with John O'Neill for the next day at the WTC. - September 10, 2001 - Large number of "put" options are placed on American Airlines stock betting that the stock price would fall. - September 10, 2001 - Ex. CIA-director, former President, and President Bush's Dad, George H.W. Bush, meets with one of Osama Bin Laden's brothers at a Carlyle business conference in Washington D.C. Look what you made me do Champ! Have fun debating facts and logic. Hopefully you can take time off from taking 15 year old girls with braces to see the latest vampire flick. I can't believe I actually spent 30 minutes on your stupid ass, the same dude who wears the same gym shorts for 4 days and doesn't shower lol. |
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| Gandy | Aug 25 2010, 11:32 PM Post #24 |
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NM Headliner
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DRUNK WHAT A WALL OF TEXT DRUNKZOROSHODH //roll-sides20 //roll-sides20 |
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| TheEyebrow | Aug 25 2010, 11:40 PM Post #25 |
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NM Headliner
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::Flies plane into wall of text:: |
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| TAFKA Tymer | Aug 26 2010, 07:08 AM Post #26 |
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Not Yentering
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But that wall of text was made of steel! JET FUEL DOESN'T BURN HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL! CONSPIRACY! |
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 08:58 AM Post #27 |
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NM Legend
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That's all you can do, make lame ass jokes because there's no way to debate facts. I'm glad I got the whole board riding my dick it feels good. Keep making corny jokes because none of you can have a serious conversation about it, let alone debate a single one of the things I listed, lol. Don't you guys feel corny trying to "team up" to destroy my credibility? Like not one of you cornballs has anything else to say besides corny jokes. I don't even know why I wasted my time with this, I actually thought Eye would come with some intelligent shit, but I think he knows better after the "the kidnapping rate won't rise cuz I think so!" debate, lol. You never worked a day in your life and smoke weed (schwag most likely, I remember you telling me about picking seeds out of your weed, lolol) all day and pretend like you're some knowledgable political bigwig who's always right. Gandy - dude you have some obsession with puppets and are most likely a virgin who talks shit about his friend and his girlfriend to his online friends, pathetic. Tymer - lol. |
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| TheEyebrow | Aug 26 2010, 11:43 AM Post #28 |
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My god dude are you that bad at taking a joke? This isn't my debate with you and you're gonna call me out? Suck a dick Davey boy, you're as insecure as it gets. P.S. I don't pretend like I'm some political bigwig. I was awarded a master's degree in public policy by professors who've studied politics/worked in DC their whole life. I've NEVER used that against anyone either vocally or in my head, so please don't act like I do. But don't worry dude, I'll be sure never to talk politics with you again. Edited by TheEyebrow, Aug 26 2010, 12:06 PM.
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| TAFKA Tymer | Aug 26 2010, 12:28 PM Post #29 |
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Not Yentering
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Personally, I won't debate you, Dave, for a variety of reasons. I have better things to do than to type out a novel like you did, so I'll try to just make it quick. It's been my experience that your type will go to great lengths to try and back up a ridiculous viewpoint and somehow, in your minds, that makes it "factual." It's fuckin' tiring, honestly. The arguments always end up at the same place, with me wanting to strangle each and every one of you "listen to me, look at me, I know THE TRUTH, man!" attention-seeking, conspiracy theorist faggots. Why is it so FUCKING difficult for all the "truthers" to understand that a group that has hated us for years decided that they still don't like us, came up with a good plan, and caught us with our pants down on September 11? I haven't read 1/16th of the shitfest you posted, so I couldn't debate the specific points that make up your "beliefs" even if I wanted to, but most of the bullshit explanations I've heard from "truthers" are so far-fetched and unbelievable that it sounds more like a shitty movie idea than something a human being would believe actually happened. I find myself wanting to touch on specifics now, so I'm just going to save myself the stress and stop this thing cold right now. I'll conclude by saying that my belief is that you and anyone else who believes 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government are a fucking out-of-touch joke to me. Also, I think that the Mosque near Ground Zero is in very poor taste, but obviously they have the right to put it there. |
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 12:40 PM Post #30 |
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NM Legend
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Yup, I'm that bad at taking a "joke." When I post evidence, facts, and examples with links backing up my beliefs you and your boyfriends want to try and belittle my opinion by posting shit that I haven't even referred to, and you can tell I was being serious so why throw some stupid unfunny joke out and try to make a mockery of me? You're gonna make fun of me for trying to have a serious debate? Ok. I will diss the shit out of you. Yeah I'm real insecure, publically posting my political beliefs to strangers, lol, makes sense! Did you also minor in Lame Joketology as well? I guess that degree gives you the right to ridicule anyone who believes the people in charge of our country saw the financial benefits of 9/11 and either let it happen or participated in it. |
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| TheEyebrow | Aug 26 2010, 12:50 PM Post #31 |
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Let's get some facts out there. 1. I didn't get involved in this 9/11 debate. I never said you were right or wrong. Why should it be my responsibility to argue against you? Take that up with Champ. I started this thread, but YOU get to decide every reply I make? And on top of that, No Mercy can't make jokes anymore? Everything's serious? 2. Gandy was drunk off his fucking ass. He said he was drunk off his ass. You expect a serious reply out of him? I read your post hours before Gandy replied and didn't belittle it at all. Gandy brought up the 'wall' comment, which was what inspired my 'unfunny' joke. I didn't even quote your text in that post. 3. Here's how A1 replied when he treated it as just a joke.
Look at how you replied man. So keep on dissing me if it makes you feel better, but it's sure not making you look any better. Enjoy your truth. Edited by TheEyebrow, Aug 26 2010, 12:51 PM.
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 12:52 PM Post #32 |
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NM Legend
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You have better things to do? Like post pictures of naked men and watch the WNBA, lol. I love how you still call my beliefs "ridiculous" even after I provided examples with links and facts and asked anyone to debate just 1 of them. Yeah, I'm an attention seeker, that's why I remained silent in this entire thread until Champ decided to attempt to make fun of me. Why's it so difficult to accept the 9/11 official story? Well I think the examples I listed are good enough, and the financial benefits of the elite businessmen/bankers/politicians outweighed the lives of the 2800 or so who died that day. <<Why is it so FUCKING difficult for all the "truthers" to understand that a group that has hated us for years decided that they still don't like us, came up with a good plan, and caught us with our pants down on September 11? I haven't read 1/16th of the shitfest you posted, >> Another 9/11 expert who hasn't even done a bit of research, you said it yourself. But apparently, people who haven't done the research know more than the people who have. "I haven't read 1/16th of the shitfest...." lol. <<but most of the bullshit explanations I've heard from "truthers" are so far-fetched and unbelievable that it sounds more like a shitty movie idea than something a human being would believe actually happened. >> most? Which ones? The ones who believe no planes hit the towers? What do you know Tymer! They did make a shitty movie about it! <<I find myself wanting to touch on specifics now, so I'm just going to save myself the stress and stop this thing cold right now>> Do it. Break it down for me Tymer since you're so smart. I'm stressing you out by posting FACTS about 9/11? Then you must know you got some splainin to do! <<I'll conclude by saying that my belief is that you and anyone else who believes 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government are a fucking out-of-touch joke to me.>> I believe anyone who doesn't at least do SOME research and hear viewpoints from educated people (scientists for example) who believe 9/11 was orchestrated one way or another is a joke to me. I believe anyone who believes everything they hear from the mainstream media is another joke to me. |
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 01:02 PM Post #33 |
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NM Legend
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1. You involved yourself by ridiculing my opinion on a very serious subject. I did take it up with Champ and you 3 decided to throw in your little jokes to help out his. You have the choice to reply anything you want, but I also have the choice to post facts backing up by beliefs, which none of you care to research or investigate for yourselves. Yeah Eye, I'm here proclaiming No Mercy is no longer allowed to make jokes! Raarrrrr I'm the evil serious poster! Fuck no, but when I'm talking about some REAL shit and you wanna make little indirect jokes about me and my beliefs, you better believe I will reply. 2. I could give a fuck about Gandy and his stupid jokes. I'm the only person on this board to publically discuss 9/11 so do you really expect me to sit back and watch you 3 fags make a mockery of me? 3. Oh gee wiz A1 thought it was funny, man I should change my opinion now! Keep making indirect jokes about me and my beliefs if it makes you feel better, as long as you don't take the time to do the research and form an independent mindstate about it. Think for yourself, not what mainstream media tells you. Oh shit Penn and Teller said it's bullshit, and so did Bill O'Reilly, they called all 9/11 conspiracy theorists crazy! All 9/11 conspiracy theorists are paranoid and are either on/off their medications, they're nuts! |
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| TAFKA Tymer | Aug 26 2010, 01:08 PM Post #34 |
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Not Yentering
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So, you think I've formed my opinions on what truthers believe by never hearing their "research" and "investigations" huh?
Edited by TAFKA Tymer, Aug 26 2010, 01:10 PM.
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 03:18 PM Post #35 |
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NM Legend
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Do me a favor and answer one of the questions I asked, or debate a single fact I posted. Since my opinion is so silly, it should be easy to tear me to shreds right! So you've heard a truther say "no planes hit the towers!" and probably lol'd halfway to your grave, as you should. Most of these people are paid to look ridiculous to discredit anyone who actually has "debateable" points, evidence, facts, and makes it so easy for people like you to laugh off anyone who believes something was up with 9/11. The other percentage of "no-planers" really are that crazy. Let me know which truthers you've listened to, because people like Alex Jones, David Icke, etc., are paid disinformationalists who mix 90% of truth to get you riled up/angry/upset/wanting revenge/wanting to exploit truth, but in reality the other 10% is total fabrication, so when you go to discuss it you sound like an idiot. I am way past that aspect and would love to have a serious discussion about 9/11 anytime and am waiting for you to make a mockery of facts, or wait, should I just call them an amazing amount of coincidences? |
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| TheEyebrow | Aug 26 2010, 03:36 PM Post #36 |
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Yeah Tymer! Learn how to have a rational discussion with a person. Like take the debate Dave and I had about whether Proposition 19 would lead to more kidnappings. I presented those links as to where drugs were coming from and cited examples of cities where drug laws were relaxed and no kidnappings happened, and did Dave make fun of me?
Well...at least he didn't try to turn it into a joke and belittle me with it!
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| Silo | Aug 26 2010, 05:06 PM Post #37 |
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NM Legend
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Yeah Eye! Way to change the subject completely and still not answer a single question or fact I presented! <<I presented those links as to where drugs were coming from and cited examples of cities where drug laws were relaxed and no kidnappings happened>> 1. You presented a single website that stated "U.S. cocaine usage is on the decline." Well that would make sense since we're at war with a country who's #1 product is poppy plants and controls 90% of the world's heroin supply, right? What event even jumpstarted that war? I'm clueless. I see the headline that says U.S. drug usage is on the decline, but where in the website does it state specific examples and facts of OVERALL DRUG USAGE declining, not just cocaine usage declining 2. The examples of cities you used as are meaningless because this situation in Arizona is unlike any of them. We're talking about America basically letting terrorists in to kidnap American children for ransom money. It is the kidnapping capitol, but apparently the kidnapping rate won't rise even after their #1 product is eliminated (potentially.) That's pretty lol-worthy to me, sorry if that doesn't suit your sense of humor. You cited 1 website : http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/37961/ What you continue to completely ignore (see the Proposition 19 thread and you not replying to my last post in it) is that the Mexico-Arizona situation is unique and can not be compared to any other type. Name another country that experiences illegal immigration that can compare to the rate of Mexicans flocking into U.S.A. I heard there's over 10 million illegal immigrants currently living here, want me to google search that for ya? Name another terrorist organization that's #1 product is being eliminated (potentially.) Name another terrorist organization that's already specializing in kidnappings of what they consider wealthy (wealthy compared to the peso's they make) children. The only reason I made jokes about you is because you blatantly joined in on the "make Dave look crazy" indirect joke train. Oh, and the fact that you said "cocaine comes from the ""AMERICA'S,"" to make it sound like a large percentage of cocaine comes out of the U.S.A. I'll say it again - cocaine comes from South America, not even in our continent. Next |
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| TheEyebrow | Aug 26 2010, 07:50 PM Post #38 |
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NM Headliner
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Despite having already made this clear, I'm not talking about 9/11. That is not my topic, nor ever was my topic. I get to decide my topics, not you (it's a perk of having free will!). MY topic was the hypocrisy in you calling out Tymer for 'mocking your facts' when you did/are still doing the exact same thing to me calling my examples 'meaningless'. I don't have a problem with you not being convinced with my arguments, but you've gotta give us the right not to be convinced by yours.
That link only referred to the information about where amphetamine was being produced. Here's some data on other drugs and a link about cocaine use in Europe: http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/nationtrends.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5118012.stm The point I'm trying to make is that there are other emerging drug markets available. If the US stops being a consumer of Mexican drugs, the cartels have Europe as an alternative, thus not forcing them to immediately start kidnapping for survival.
Ok so let me get this straight. Arizona is a completely unique situation. It's so unique that there's not a single other analogous city out there for us to compare it to (as I've asked you, and you've yet to produce anything). It's a completely new scenario with no precedent and yet...you know exactly what's going to happen? Do you not see the error in that logic? Frankly I don't agree with the notion that Arizona is that unique. Oakland used to have drug dealers, but your argument is that, once the drug dealing business is gone, there are plenty of high-paying jobs left, so they can choose those and bypass kidnapping? Is Cisco on the lookout for some programmers with no college degrees and no job experience? Drug dealers making potentially thousands of dollars in a day are ok with just taking some minimum wage job all of a sudden? Hell no they're not, but yet they had to make some crappy choice, and so far it hasn't proven to be kidnapping.
I didn't ignore your argument. I stopped replying because the conversation was going nowhere. We disagree on fundamental assumptions, but you keep trying to make arguments based on them. Yes we have a shitload of illegal immigrants, but they're not all criminals and they're already here. We're discussing whether the current trend (with the 10 million illegals) will change. Both FARC and Al Qaeda have had their number one product targeted, coca and heroin respectively, but since you want one that kidnaps, I'll go with FARC; Plan Colombia was the government's strategy to attack FARC, including a massive coca eradication scheme. The results? "Between 2000 and 2003, the fumigation program sprayed over 380,000 hectares of coca, which is equivalent to more than 8% of Colombia’s arable land." - From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Colombia Now look at what happened to the kidnapping rate in Colombia starting in the peak at 2000, when fumigation began. ![]() From: http://www.bigtravelweb.com/travel/2008/10/27/kidnapping-statistics-mexico-brazil-ecuador-venezuela-more-prone-than-colombia/
About 'The Americas', my comment wasn't that the cocaine comes from the USA. I was just making a point that despite the distance between South America and Europe, it hasn't acted as an obstacle to huge cocaine shipments. In the same manner, despite the distance between Mexico and Europe, I can't think of why there wouldn't be similar marijuana shipments. That's fundamental to my argument; I'm proposing that it's more profitable to sell your primary product (marijuana) to a different market (Europe), than to keep the same market (Arizona) but change to a different product (kidnapping). That was all the McDonald's crap. As far as the joke, not every single one of my comments involves criticizing you. I mentioned earlier that when I first read your post, I read it, but having no answers, I didn't reply. I didn't criticize you one word (nor think to) and hours passed. Then Gandy came on, made a joke about the LENGTH of the text, and I made a joke about that. In the chat today Gandy specified that his joke only had to do with the length, not the content. Yes, I took the subject of your post and applied it to Gandy's comment, but how in the world does that constitute criticism of you? If I don't know I'm criticizing you, I'm pretty sure I'm not. If I wanted to make fun of you, why wouldn't I just do it directly now? I'm not, nor ever was, calling you crazy...I've been making 9/11 jokes since 9/12 son. Edited by TheEyebrow, Aug 26 2010, 07:50 PM.
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| Silo | Aug 27 2010, 10:04 AM Post #39 |
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NM Legend
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<<Despite having already made this clear, I'm not talking about 9/11. That is not my topic, nor ever was my topic. I get to decide my topics, not you (it's a perk of having free will!). MY topic was the hypocrisy in you calling out Tymer for 'mocking your facts' when you did/are still doing the exact same thing to me calling my examples 'meaningless'. I don't have a problem with you not being convinced with my arguments, but you've gotta give us the right not to be convinced by yours.>> They are meaningless though because you again failed to provide examples of how this Arizona situation isn't the first of it's kind, like I asked and coincidentilly you didn't quote that part of my last post. The link you provided definitely shows a decrease in kidnappings in Colombia, but that data only shows up to 2007. Here's a link you should check out - http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/9686-colombia-sees-89-kidnappings-so-far-in-2010.html <<The point I'm trying to make is that there are other emerging drug markets available. If the US stops being a consumer of Mexican drugs, the cartels have Europe as an alternative, thus not forcing them to immediately start kidnapping for survival.>> The problem I have with this argument is that you expect drug cartels to purchase/steal boats/planes, sail them across the Atlantic ocean, and be satisfied with that option for the rest of their lives. While some (I believe a very small percentage would actually do that) may do that, I think the more lucritive/easier option would be do travel across the border (easy as hell) and snatch up Little Jimmy for $100K and receive that within a week. If you don't believe that an increase in that is inevitible, I don't know what else to say. <<Ok so let me get this straight. Arizona is a completely unique situation. It's so unique that there's not a single other analogous city out there for us to compare it to (as I've asked you, and you've yet to produce anything). >> I'm positive that last post I asked you the same exact question, which you didn't quote. <<It's a completely new scenario with no precedent and yet...you know exactly what's going to happen? Do you not see the error in that logic? >> No, I don't. Assuming a kidnapping capitol will see an increase in kidnappings due to their #1 product being eliminated makes all the sense in the world to me. You're doing the same thing, attempting to compare a poor country that borders the wealthiest in the world to Colombia which borders Peru, Brazil, etc. <<Frankly I don't agree with the notion that Arizona is that unique. Oakland used to have drug dealers, but your argument is that, once the drug dealing business is gone, there are plenty of high-paying jobs left, so they can choose those and bypass kidnapping?>> Oakland still has tens of thousands of drug dealers. I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Oakland is not even in the same atmosphere as the Mexico/Arizona situation. Instead of kidnappings, I think if drugs were outlawed (I guess that's what you're trying to say) or Oakland police harshly stepped up their drug laws and police security of that city, there would be no increase in kidnappings. You may be right, but I'd bet my life on an increase in overall crimes including robberies and muggings. <<Is Cisco on the lookout for some programmers with no college degrees and no job experience? Drug dealers making potentially thousands of dollars in a day are ok with just taking some minimum wage job all of a sudden? Hell no they're not, but yet they had to make some crappy choice, and so far it hasn't proven to be kidnapping.>> You're supporting my argument in the Proposition 19 thread and my overall view of the Arizona/Mexico situation. You expect terrorists and drug dealers to suddenly stop kidnapping (and once their product is eliminated) turn into pilots and sailors and distribute to countries across the Atlantic ocean. <<About 'The Americas', my comment wasn't that the cocaine comes from the USA. I was just making a point that despite the distance between South America and Europe, it hasn't acted as an obstacle to huge cocaine shipments. In the same manner, despite the distance between Mexico and Europe, I can't think of why there wouldn't be similar marijuana shipments.>> Because marijuana is a cheap and inferior product and the market for outdoor grown shwag does not compare to the market of highly potent strands which can be found right in Amsterdam. <<That's fundamental to my argument; I'm proposing that it's more profitable to sell your primary product (marijuana) to a different market (Europe), than to keep the same market (Arizona) but change to a different product (kidnapping).>> So you think it's more profitible to travel across the Atlantic ocean, buy/steal a boat or plane, learn how to fly a plane through pilot lessons (let's say they all decide to buy boats instead, forget the planes) pay for fuel, water and food to take on the trip, and make more than you were in America. But kidnapping an American child where the only cost is duct tape, a vehicle to travel across the border, and the fuel to get there and back and receive a 6 figure payout within a week, is less enticing. Ok, me and you disagree on that. Also, I want to apologize to you and you only for insulting you. While I was out of line, I truly believed and still believe that all 3 (4 if you count that dirty redneck) were indirectly dissing me and trying to make it look like anyone who believed anything was strange about 9/11 is "crazy" or unintelligent. If that was not your intention, I am truly sorry, however I don't believe that considering I am the only person on this board to make it known that I do not agree with the official 9/11 "story." I hope that more people actually watch a couple of these documentaries when they get a spare 2 hours and hear the other side of the "story" and get viewpoints from very educated people like scientists and people involved/knowing politicians. If you don't believe something was up with 9/11, that's fine, that's your belief. Once again, Eye, I apologize for dissing you. I hope you and I continue to have these type of conversations because it is nothing but educational. |
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