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"THE" Health Care Bill Passes
Topic Started: Mar 22 2010, 01:47 AM (1,554 Views)
TheEyebrow
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HBJabroni
Jun 28 2012, 05:02 PM
El Creepo H
Jun 28 2012, 10:47 AM
So... should I be applauding this?
If you like the idea of a huge tax increase, then yes. Like it even more if you don't have a job so the tax won't actually have anything to do with you, but you can still benefit from the care
Hmm. Yes.

You still have to pay for your own healthcare of course.
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HBJabroni
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TheEyebrow
Jun 28 2012, 05:47 PM
HBJabroni
Jun 28 2012, 05:02 PM
El Creepo H
Jun 28 2012, 10:47 AM
So... should I be applauding this?
If you like the idea of a huge tax increase, then yes. Like it even more if you don't have a job so the tax won't actually have anything to do with you, but you can still benefit from the care
Hmm. Yes.

You still have to pay for your own healthcare of course.
Not if it's the same as Massachusetts. Anybody who has a yearly income of 150% or less of the poverty line can get full coverage and not pay the tax. You also don't have to pay the fine if you never apply for insurance at that pay level, as it is illegal to not have insurance here. And since a shit ton of businesses avoid the insurance law by hiring temps or hiring people at 32 hours or less, that means basically anybody making $10 an hour or less can get it free.
This isnt actually related but still a fun tidbit to discuss. It became a law that businesses had to provide health insurance to full time employees, so they just did what I described above and also got out of paying sick time, vacation time, 401k, insurance, and any other benefit they offered. So I'd say businesses won that round and the blue collared everyday guy got fucked.
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TheEyebrow
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This is different from MA. There's still help for those who have trouble affording it, but from what I understand of Obamacare, since it's not entirely free, this only requires a few taxes on the wealthy; a capital gains tax and an increase in Medicare tax for those making over $250,000. Right now I'm on the lowest tier of MD's exchange since I don't have a job and it's still $180 a month. There's nothing cheaper here.

I totally agree that businesses should not be involved in healthcare, both for the reasons you gave, and because it's just a burden on a business who could otherwise be focusing on their specialty. That's part of why I want a single-payer ideally, but that'd definitely raise taxes as you described.
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HBJabroni
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TheEyebrow
Jun 28 2012, 09:46 PM
Right now I'm on the lowest tier of MD's exchange since I don't have a job and it's still $180 a month. There's nothing cheaper here.
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The Obama Care Health Care Reform Plan or Health Care For America Plan will cost the average American around $70. For those Americans who cannot afford this premium and who's income is at or over %200 below the national poverty level there will be a free option. This ensures that Health Care For America covers every American and can be sustained by the people of the United States of America and Our Government.


This might be old info
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El Creepo H
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Is it true that costs are still going to increase anyways? AKA, this bill was for business and to make health care bureaucratic rather than to make everyone healthy?

Not trying to start shit, just trying to understand WTF is going on.
"Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter"
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TheEyebrow
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HBJabroni
Jun 29 2012, 06:29 AM
TheEyebrow
Jun 28 2012, 09:46 PM
Right now I'm on the lowest tier of MD's exchange since I don't have a job and it's still $180 a month. There's nothing cheaper here.
Quote:
 
The Obama Care Health Care Reform Plan or Health Care For America Plan will cost the average American around $70. For those Americans who cannot afford this premium and who's income is at or over %200 below the national poverty level there will be a free option. This ensures that Health Care For America covers every American and can be sustained by the people of the United States of America and Our Government.


This might be old info
http://www.smartmoney.com/taxes/income/what-obamacare-may-mean-for-taxes-1335896160486/ lists what I said about only taxes on those making over $250,000.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/ includes some other taxation that's part of the bill, but it all seems to do directly with health coverage itself, like lower deductions for those with extremely high medical bills.

So on average it might come to $70 a person, but that could be $0 for one person and $140 from another the way these taxes seem structured. We could both be right there. I can't find a single thing about a free option other than at the obamacarafacts.com site, where I'm guessing you saw it too. Everything else I see is about subsidies for the poorest families.
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TheEyebrow
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El Creepo H
Jun 29 2012, 10:39 AM
Is it true that costs are still going to increase anyways? AKA, this bill was for business and to make health care bureaucratic rather than to make everyone healthy?

Not trying to start shit, just trying to understand WTF is going on.
I wouldn't say the bill was "for business" and it certainly wasn't meant to make things bureaucratic, that's always an unintended consequence.

The principle was making people healthy. I trust both sides truly wanted that. But with a compromise necessary, the final bill is sorta messy and I could see how you'd come to those conclusions. A public option wasn't allowed, so that was the whole ugliness of the mandate; it forces people to buy insurance, and those people often turn to private options. So you're forced into being a customer, though if you were super anti-business, you can choose to be a customer of the state rather than a for-profit organization.

Whether costs increase is one of the big debates. The president's budget people showed it would create savings over some time period because of economies of scale, but others argue it will just make things more expensive. There will be some overview of spending practices, so a govt. agency will be testing medical procedures for effectiveness and there's a requirement that 85% of an insurance company's costs are on medical expenditures instead of overhead, with the intent on cutting down on unnecessary costs. All of Title 3 is devoted to this: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590

Quote:
 
Section 3001 -
Amends SSA title XVIII (Medicare) to direct the Secretary to establish a hospital value-based purchasing program under which value-based incentive payments are made in a fiscal year to hospitals that meet specified performance standards for a certain performance period. Directs the Secretary to establish value-based purchasing demonstration programs for: (1) inpatient critical access hospital services; and (2) hospitals excluded from the program because of insufficient numbers of measures and cases.
Section 3002 -
Extends through 2013 the authority for incentive payments under the physician quality reporting system. Prescribes an incentive (penalty) for providers who do not report quality measures satisfactorily, beginning in 2015. Requires the Secretary to integrate reporting on quality measures with reporting requirements for the meaningful use of electronic health records.
Section 3003 -
Requires specified new types of reports and data analysis under the physician feedback program.
Section 3004 -
Requires long-term care hospitals, inpatient rehabilitation hospitals, and hospices, starting in rate year 2014, to submit data on specified quality measures. Requires reduction of the annual update of entities which do not comply.
Section 3005 -
Directs the Secretary, starting FY2014, to establish quality reporting programs for inpatient cancer hospitals exempt from the prospective payment system. (Sec. 3006, as modified by Sec. 10301) Directs the Secretary to develop a plan to implement value-based purchasing programs for Medicare payments for skilled nursing facilities (SNFs), home health agencies, and ambulatory surgical centers.
Section 3007 -
Directs the Secretary to establish a value-based payment modifier, under the physician fee schedule, based upon the quality of care furnished compared to cost.
Section 3008 -
Subjects hospitals to a penalty adjustment to hospital payments for high rates of hospital acquired conditions.


is just one part of it. It's really quite an extensive bill, it wasn't just about coverage.
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CanadianCrippler
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Thank goshness this is still a thing, cause it almost wasn't anymore.
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