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| "THE" Health Care Bill Passes | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 22 2010, 01:47 AM (1,556 Views) | |
| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 02:02 PM Post #21 |
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NM Legend
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OH ALMIGHTY GANDALF THANK YOU FOR BLESSING THIS THREAD WITH YOUR SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVy5XHjuGI And after 2 days of behind closed doors meetings, we are told that Obama walked out, disrespected the president of Isreal, and said "come up with something new." Oh ok ::buys buys buys:: |
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| TheEyebrow | Mar 26 2010, 02:28 PM Post #22 |
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NM Headliner
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1. This is a piece of legislation, which is supposed to be written by congress. Very few are sucking Obama's dick, but in the same vain I don't think he should be criticized for it either. 2. The problem with too many tax brackets is imagine you make 999k a year and pay say 10% tax = 99.9k to the government. You bump it up to a million and all of a sudden you're paying 15% = 150k from just one dollar. So people either don't earn that dollar, or funnel money to offshore accounts, foreign investments, etc. I agree in principle with brackets, but eventually you get too many. Sweden's one of the most equal societies in the world (and the best example of social democracy there is, my personal favorite), has universal health care, and has a flat income tax percentage for all income levels. 3. Yes, 'shit is just going to happen', but it's not like the regular flu - it's like measles (164000 deaths annually), rotavirus (527000 deaths), Pneumococcal (735000 deaths), Tetanus (83000 deaths in Africa AND another 83000 in southeast Asia), not to mention all the polio deaths we're avoiding these days. But hey, who cares how many diseases turn your lungs into water so long as you're free of that big bad government. 4. I'd hardly call this bill the most controversial in decades, and I don't see how it'd even help Jewish people or whatever so I don't get the connection. As far as meeting with Netanyahu, I agree it was stupid giving him a microphone because he just used it for his own platform like the arrogant prick he is, but there's no telling what Obama said to him behind closed doors. I have no reason to believe he didn't scream at Netanyahu for going ahead with the settlements, you know how much Obama wanted this peace deal on his resume. But I agree that we're way too soft on Israel, they're not MY top ally. 5. I agree with higher income tax, but I'm a liberal so that's to be expected ![]() 6. Judging from personal experience and listening to others repeat the same sentiments, I truly believe that is is the NURSES and not the doctors who do the most work. When I was in the hospital for the seizures (and I do have healthcare), the same nurses would check up nearly on the hour, and I always had the little Nurse Call button for them to come running in. They remembered my names, dealt with my family, gave me my drugs, answered questions, etc. Then there were the doctors. I never saw the same doctor twice. One came into my room, read my chart, asked a few basic questions like 'how you feeling now', then left. That's it. I sometimes had multiple doctors do that same 15 second 'diagnosis' having to ask the same questions because apparently the other one didn't even have the idea to write it down. I had a neurology 'specialist' do the same thing. I had a psychiatrist (Christopher Badger I still remember that fuck's name) do the same thing, AND prescribe to me an SSRI which I'd specifically told a previous doctor had done nothing for me in the past. These meetings NEVER lasted 30 seconds, and both the neurologist and the psychiatrist charged me over $100 for these supposed services. Those doctors were greedy fuckasses who deserve to be paid shit and deserve to hate their job. Fuck them, send me a new crop who will actually give a fuck about the patient. (These don't refer to the primary doctors who dealt with me when I first came in, who did do real work and did deserve to get paid). My point is, the nurses got paid shit, worked long hours, and already had to deal with lots of patients, and they were absolutely awesome because of one difference: They gave a shit about health, not money. Frankly if half the current doctors left the profession to become lawyers I say good riddance, they were in the wrong field to begin with. That being said, this bill also helps doctors pay for med school if I'm correct (And if it's not very helpful, I support further reform because what I just said is impossible without sufficient aid), and I also support tort reform since I know doctors are legitimately worried about getting sued and shouldn't have to be. Edited by TheEyebrow, Mar 26 2010, 02:30 PM.
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| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 03:12 PM Post #23 |
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NM Legend
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First I would like to thank you for taking my arguments seriously. 2. It wouldn't have to be a huge increase, but another .1% from ceos and billionaires is going to generate the big bucks and it would not have a big effect on their salary. .1% for the millionaires, .2% for 10, .3% for 25, etc etc. Considering there are 1 million+ millionaires in our country and make up less than 1% of our population, I think they can afford to give up a little bit more without it seriously effecting their bankroll and life. 3. so the swine flu is going to kill tens of thousands of people in America? The regular flu kills over 35,000 people a year and there are vaccines galore, all of which are optional! I have never in my life had a flu shot and when my mother was recquired to get a flu shot for a past job, she was sick for months and had a bad reaction to whatever the fuck is in there. She had feveres, bronchitus, and other FLU LIKE symptoms for almost 3 months! Not everyone is the same and people are allergic/have different reactions than other people. My argument is not about "oh big bad government is going to de-populize us with these vaccines!," it's "I don't wanna put ANYTHING in my body that I don't approve of or want." That is my right. 4. What bills have been more controversial? We have politicians houses and offices having drive-bys pulled on them! This is chaotic to say the least. 6. I agree with you about nurses working harder, however there is obviously a reason for that because they are not as educated as the doctors. The doctors (whether their parents paid for all their schooling or they put themselves into debt and are now working to get out of it) know way more than any nurse does and actually get down to the whole "saving your life" part ie: operations, diagnosing you, and prescribing you medications. Are there bad doctors? Fuck yeah...plenty! Are there hardworking doctors who truly care about their patients and bust their ass every day? Fuck yeah...plenty! However, when they are forced to work longer and strenuous hours while making less money, there is going to be decline in not only the quality of health care but the quantity of good doctors. I personally have dealt with awesome doctors and nurses, and then I have met those who couldn't give 2 shits about you and want to get in and out of their asap. It's all about finding the right doctor for you |
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| CanadianCrippler | Mar 26 2010, 04:33 PM Post #24 |
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NM Headliner
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Dave, my man, I'm not calling you crazy, I am solely talking about the people who are shooting at homes and offices. |
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| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 04:41 PM Post #25 |
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NM Legend
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I know that my friend, I probably shouldn't have used that while quoting your post. U my boy crip |
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| TheEyebrow | Mar 26 2010, 05:46 PM Post #26 |
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NM Headliner
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3. I don't think the swine flu will because it's mild, old people were already immunized from decades ago, and it wasn't all that contagious compared to other viruses. And like with SARS, if you find a new virus but can contain it quick enough, your population is more or less safe. I'm not saying there shouldn't be exemptions allowed but herd immunity is important and some of the threshold levels to achieve it are high. It's only 85% for Diphtheria, but Russia saw a huge increase in incidents once the Soviet Union fell and vaccinations dropped below that: ![]() from http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol4no4/vitek.htm 4. I'd say Iraq. It didn't result in bricks being thrown, but those are isolated incidents. I'm not expecting (and certainly not hoping) all people who disagree start doing that crazy shit. But I was definitely pissed about Iraq and have heard plenty of others yell about it too. 6. I'm not disparaging all doctors, just saying there's not necessarily a strict correlation between level of pay and level of care, it's a crapshoot. Those doctors who are great will have other hospitals competing for them, it's not as if this bill caps doctor pay or anything like that. I've heard doctors in this debate say they would rather have been GPs but were forced to specialize just to pay off medical debts. So I don't think the current system has effectively squeezed out all the good doctors, and the bill can remove current obstacles (like enormous debts) that will allow more good doctors, not just reduce standards so former rejects suddenly get jobs. It's not a full-fledged argument because I don't know enough about the field, but as someone who is prone to winding up unconscious in the hospital, I'm not personally afraid at all that this bill puts me at risk when that time comes. Further, if you look at poor countries of the world, one of the few sectors that surprisingly succeed is healthcare - Cuba for example, Sri Lanka for an even poorer example. The US is not rated as having the best quality healthcare according to independent studies (just the best for the super-rich), even though we pay the most. Countries with socialized healthcare pay less and do better on these rankings, so I'm not certain poorer quality is a guaranteed consequence. Edited by TheEyebrow, Mar 26 2010, 06:41 PM.
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| Jawa | Mar 26 2010, 06:32 PM Post #27 |
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Grand Elder
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I'll bet he extended his hand for a handshake, pulling it back before the shake could take place, stood up, put on sunglasses, spun in place, popped his collar, pointed gun style with both hands, and moonwalked out the door. |
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"SEXYEDDIE" EddieJ1984: i love readun books "sexyeddie"eddiej1984: Plus i like to stare into her eyes while i fuck her "TheEyebrow" theeyebrow: when life gives you lemons, jack off into the lemons and eat them | |
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| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 08:02 PM Post #28 |
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NM Legend
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Eye (no dickriding, 100% truth) your response to #3 was fucking awesome. 4. I disagree with you because when we initially invaded Iraq, we thought we were going to not only stop and fight terrorism, but to find nuclear weapons. a lot of people were actually in support of this at the time, way more than against it (including dennis kucinich and hundreds of members of congress AT ZEE TIME). turns out, none of those really happened although the image of Saddam's statue being torn down by a tank is drilled into our minds, we are still there to this day doin the saaaaaame shieeeet. But hey, we're disagreeing upon how controversial past issues were lol 6. I can't really say you're wrong on any of your points and you have more experience dealing with U.S. doctors and hospitals than I have so I respect your opinion. However, I really do think that the possibility of increased waiting times (i know, a small, slight complaint....but think about all the extra motherfuckers that will be in the doctors office now that THIRTY MILLION or more can now go there for free basically) and more doctors not givin' a fuck (not quite a valid argument either lol) will increase. With the 30 million person increase (who will be paying small amounts) in any industry or field, there also needs to be an increase in the people who treat and see these 30 million people, and by the numbers I personally don't feel there's even a million qualified doctors being pumped out of our educational systems every year. Hopefully there will be some kind of increased funding in medical studies as well. |
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| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 08:04 PM Post #29 |
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NM Legend
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lol, thanks for that image. after reading that I also thought about how funny it would look if Barack dropped the people's elbow |
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| Silo | Mar 26 2010, 08:48 PM Post #30 |
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NM Legend
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http://govne.ws/item/What-Health-Reform-Does-This-Year-In-3-Minutes# Let's see if this stuff starts happening this year. |
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| El Creepo H | Mar 27 2010, 08:32 AM Post #31 |
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Smackdown Board President
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Just to jump in, you only get financial help if you end up doing primary care. However, primary care (as many of you realize) is already mad stressful and most people hate doing it if it weren't for patient interaction. Well, when you add 30 million people to an already crowded population, the prospects of an enjoyable career in primary care become even worse. With the bill, they are trying to convince those who know nothing about primary care field to get stuck into doing it because of the financial benefit for med school. However, their lives will be fucked as the long hours, mass of patients, and lack of patient interaction will take a toll on their non-work life (which by this point wouldn't exist), making care even worse. What they need to do, rather than add more doctors to the primary care field, is make it more enticing so that people would want to do it (limit number of patients seen per doctor, etc) without declining pay. |
| "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" | |
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| Silo | Mar 27 2010, 09:46 AM Post #32 |
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NM Legend
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Also I read the average Primary Care Doctor makes about $170K a year, now while this may seem like the big bucks to us kids, think about all the shit this doc might have to pay for - 1. Mortgage/Rent 2. Car/Car payment 3. Food 4. Utilities 5. Children/Alimoney/Child supprort (thats where the cash is at, ladies smarten up if any are reading) 6. Clothes 7. Pay back student loans 8. We can name a lot of other shit but we all know $170K really ain't that much in the real world The average doctor who specializes in cancer (i forget the term) makes about $330K, cariologists over $400K.... |
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| The Wizard of Goz | Mar 27 2010, 11:31 AM Post #33 |
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FWO Suxxx!
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I do not think conservatives are instigating people. You've got whackjobs on both ends of the political spectrum... it just so happens that the whackjobs on the conservative end are also card-carrying members of the NRA who exercise their right to bear arms! |
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| El Creepo H | Mar 27 2010, 03:57 PM Post #34 |
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Smackdown Board President
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You forgot the biggest deal of all: malpractice insurance. |
| "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" | |
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| The Wizard of Goz | Mar 27 2010, 05:50 PM Post #35 |
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FWO Suxxx!
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Doctors use Physician's Assistants nowadays anyway in primary care settings |
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| El Creepo H | Jun 28 2012, 10:47 AM Post #36 |
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Smackdown Board President
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So... should I be applauding this? |
| "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" | |
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| TheEyebrow | Jun 28 2012, 12:22 PM Post #37 |
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NM Headliner
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While it's complicated and I don't think it's the best option, I say yes, applaud for now. Gandy had that nasty liver infection that was only paid for because he was on his parent's insurance (If I remember correctly) And I have insurance now because Maryland started their insurance program, where BlueCross was like "Oh hey you had seizures? BYE!" and left me to buy my $900 medicine at retail. So that's 2 NMers whose health/wealth have been helped so far, and as my saying goes, If you're not rooting for me, GTFO. |
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| Gandy | Jun 28 2012, 12:48 PM Post #38 |
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NM Headliner
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that is correct. It's also true I had a job at the time and I did have the opportunity to negotiate some insurance agreement with my employer. However, I only started the job 3 months prior. I spent January 2009 through November 2011 looking for full-time employment and was largely only covered because of that provision in the bill. So I was actively looking for work for over 2 years. If it wasn't because of my family and in part because of that provision, and if I got sick 3 months prior, I could have been facing $100,000+ in medical bills had I been uninsured (the bill for my 10 day hospital stay was $82,000 plus $20,000+ for doctors fees). Though that provision is relatively less important than the others in the bill- that is how it relates to me. Edited by Gandy, Jun 28 2012, 12:53 PM.
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| HBJabroni | Jun 28 2012, 05:02 PM Post #39 |
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FLAWLESS
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If you like the idea of a huge tax increase, then yes. Like it even more if you don't have a job so the tax won't actually have anything to do with you, but you can still benefit from the care |
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| HBJabroni | Jun 28 2012, 05:14 PM Post #40 |
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FLAWLESS
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Ps I'm just being facetious , I know like nothing about it because I live in Massachusetts and health care has been around forever |
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