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Free vote on embryo law
Topic Started: Mar 25 2008, 04:53 PM (629 Views)
picollo no.
Wolfos
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080325/tsc...os-011ccfa.html

Well yet again the Catholic Church <_< sticks its oar in on a matter that could potentially save millions because they find it unethical, so apparently finding a cure for cancer is an evil abomination now and is an infringment on life, which the Catholic Church really took into consideration when slaughtering millions in their inquisitions and arresting people for homosexual activities.
And what exactly can they say is moral. What is morality even, surely morality is always different from person to person unless they act like sheep and follow a big group of people because they are incapable of thinking for themselves <_< .
Though I suppose it isn't just the Catholic Church there are many other people without a religious cause that oppose this as they just don't know what the hell it's all about and just read as far as evil human/monster hybrids.
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Dark Lugia 2
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I wish my lawn was an Emo, so it would cut itself. :D
Atleast when the majority of the country votes to let it happen the protesters can shut up :8}
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Dark Lugia 2
Mar 25 2008, 05:02 PM
Atleast when the majority of the country votes to let it happen the protesters can shut up :8}

You think they will ?:/ I have a feeling they wn't ever shut up unless we give in to them which we are partly doing by letting them go vote against it <_< . They might disagree with it but they should realise that this a big hope for many people.
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Pokemaniac John
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Piranha Plant
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:18 PM
Dark Lugia 2
Mar 25 2008, 05:02 PM
Atleast when the majority of the country votes to let it happen the protesters can shut up :8}

You think they will ?:/ I have a feeling they wn't ever shut up unless we give in to them which we are partly doing by letting them go vote against it <_< . They might disagree with it but they should realise that this a big hope for many people.

Well, that's the whole point of protesting.

EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.
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Dark Lugia 2
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I wish my lawn was an Emo, so it would cut itself. :D
Well, theyre lucky there is a vote going on for it :p when its done the result will be final wont it? And i dont really expect them to stop it, but its really never gonna happen their way if it carries on like this, an if the majority of the UK vote to let it happen :p
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.

And it's a way I feel democracy is flawed, I don't care if it disagrees with their morality, embryonic research is there to help and they shouldn't let a silly little things such as religion get in the way of it.
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Pokemaniac John
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Piranha Plant
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.

And it's a way I feel democracy is flawed, I don't care if it disagrees with their morality, embryonic research is there to help and they shouldn't let a silly little things such as religion get in the way of it.

If you don't like it, move to a country ruled by an atheist dictator. The fact is, religious people deserve to vote just as much as atheists. You're no better than them.
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shadowlink
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If you're looking for me, i'm in Ryan's boxers
What i don't get is how people knew about Embryonic research when The Bible was written.... :|
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:39 PM
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.

And it's a way I feel democracy is flawed, I don't care if it disagrees with their morality, embryonic research is there to help and they shouldn't let a silly little things such as religion get in the way of it.

If you don't like it, move to a country ruled by an atheist dictator. The fact is, religious people deserve to vote just as much as atheists. You're no better than them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't vote and I have not said I am better than a religious person, what I merely said that it's a flaw of democracy that you can vote against something that can potentially save lives and many fascist dictators get into power through democracy anyway.

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Pokemaniac John
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Piranha Plant
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:45 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:39 PM
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.

And it's a way I feel democracy is flawed, I don't care if it disagrees with their morality, embryonic research is there to help and they shouldn't let a silly little things such as religion get in the way of it.

If you don't like it, move to a country ruled by an atheist dictator. The fact is, religious people deserve to vote just as much as atheists. You're no better than them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't vote and I have not said I am better than a religious person, what I merely said that it's a flaw of democracy that you can vote against something that can potentially save lives and many fascist dictators get into power through democracy anyway.

Just because something could potentially save lives doesn't mean it's right. This is perhaps what you might call an overly extreme example, but you could say that by wiping out every life form on the planet you ultimately save lives as fewer things will die in the long term.

And if you can't vote against something, what's the point in voting at all?


Hehe, don't you just love the way we disagree on everything? :p
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:56 PM
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:45 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:39 PM
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM
Pokemaniac John
Mar 25 2008, 05:22 PM
EDIT: People should be able to vote however they like. That's the point of a democracy.

And it's a way I feel democracy is flawed, I don't care if it disagrees with their morality, embryonic research is there to help and they shouldn't let a silly little things such as religion get in the way of it.

If you don't like it, move to a country ruled by an atheist dictator. The fact is, religious people deserve to vote just as much as atheists. You're no better than them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't vote and I have not said I am better than a religious person, what I merely said that it's a flaw of democracy that you can vote against something that can potentially save lives and many fascist dictators get into power through democracy anyway.

Just because something could potentially save lives doesn't mean it's right. This is perhaps what you might call an overly extreme example, but you could say that by wiping out every life form on the planet you ultimately save lives as fewer things will die in the long term.

And if you can't vote against something, what's the point in voting at all?


Hehe, don't you just love the way we disagree on everything? :p

Well why isn't saving people's lives right, people suffering from all kind of genetic diseases and there's research which could help why should we get in the way to stop it, it's science and science is what has helped us progress through the ages. Everything will die in the long term, that is really all life is birth to death with a distraction in between called living, we can't change that and we shouldn't but has life is there it should be made te most of, so innocent people should have the right to die peacefully not suffering at the hand of a disease that is destroying them from the inside. That's why it's right to save lives.
And why do need to have a vote on everything?
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DMHowe
Do not try and eat the cake, only try and realise the truth.
Piccolo is right, the idea of voting on everything is flawed. Simply, very few people look at what is or isn't good for them and focus on negative propaganda. In a dictatorship, you can say what you like but things actually get done. Sure, maybe there's a lot of dictators that are wankers, but a benign dictator will do a lot better than a bunch of handsomest politicians arguing over what is or isn't right for self-image.
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Dark Master Howe
Mar 25 2008, 06:17 PM
Piccolo is right, the idea of voting on everything is flawed. Simply, very few people look at what is or isn't good for them and focus on negative propaganda. In a dictatorship, you can say what you like but things actually get done. Sure, maybe there's a lot of dictators that are wankers, but a benign dictator will do a lot better than a bunch of handsomest politicians arguing over what is or isn't right for self-image.

A dictatorship may not of been run effectively but that doesn't mean it can't be, as Howe said it's more down to a lot of dictators being genicidal mainiacs thats caused problems.
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Cieran
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Celebrate with cake!
Admin
I actually side with the Church in this matter. Insofar as letting MPs have a free vote anyway, I disagree that embryo research and hybrids are a bad thing, and would vote in favour given the chance, however I do think that MPs should be allowed to vote the way they want, not the way the whips tell them. The whips pretty much undermine the entire basis of democracy...
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DMHowe
Do not try and eat the cake, only try and realise the truth.
The question is here, do the ends justify the means? We could save lives by finding cures to many diseases, but would we be using millions of embryos and killing more than we save?

Unless you don't consider and embryo to be life.
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Pokemaniac John
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Piranha Plant
picollo no.
Mar 25 2008, 06:27 PM
Dark Master Howe
Mar 25 2008, 06:17 PM
Piccolo is right, the idea of voting on everything is flawed. Simply, very few people look at what is or isn't good for them and focus on negative propaganda. In a dictatorship, you can say what you like but things actually get done. Sure, maybe there's a lot of dictators that are wankers, but a benign dictator will do a lot better than a bunch of handsomest politicians arguing over what is or isn't right for self-image.

A dictatorship may not of been run effectively but that doesn't mean it can't be, as Howe said it's more down to a lot of dictators being genicidal mainiacs thats caused problems.

I agree with what Howe said. And it's not embryonic research I'm particularly against. To an extent, I merely feel obliged to argue with you as you're so firmly atheist. :p
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DMHowe
Do not try and eat the cake, only try and realise the truth.
And you're catholic?

:p

I don't really think there's any reason this shouldn't be allowed. What does or doesn't make a mockery of human life is a question of self-worth. I think that stuff like SATs make a mockery of the intelligence of children, because they are only so schools look good. But no-one pulls a strike over that, do they? Lots of things are derogatory, and I know if I lost my leg I'd like to think there's a possibility I could have a new one.

We must make sacrifices to proceed, otherwise the status quo will always remain. If you want that, fine, but there's a lot of wrong in the world. Perhaps this being legal will be a new one, but I'd like to think that giving people a chance to be happy, and for their relatives to be happy, and anyone else involved is a far greater thing than a bundle of cells in a dish.
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shadowlink
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If you're looking for me, i'm in Ryan's boxers
One thing we're all forgetting is Chuck Norris' tears can cure cancer...

It's a shame he never cries... :(
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picollo no.
Wolfos
Dark Master Howe
Mar 25 2008, 06:37 PM
The question is here, do the ends justify the means? We could save lives by finding cures to many diseases, but would we be using millions of embryos and killing more than we save?

Unless you don't consider and embryo to be life.

Well no I don't really think an embryo is a life, it's a bunch of cells and if someone gets an abortion why waste the embryo if it could further scientific research it's about being practical and using available resources.
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Dino Dan the Dinosaur Man
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What is a man?
picollo no.
Mar 26 2008, 06:11 PM
Dark Master Howe
Mar 25 2008, 06:37 PM
The question is here, do the ends justify the means? We could save lives by finding cures to many diseases, but would we be using millions of embryos and killing more than we save?

Unless you don't consider and embryo to be life.

Well no I don't really think an embryo is a life, it's a bunch of cells and if someone gets an abortion why waste the embryo if it could further scientific research it's about being practical and using available resources.

If the person having the abortion (the abortee?) consents of course - theres no chance these pregnant women could be told either have the child or we're using your child for embryo research (yes I know it's not really a "child" in our opinions, but it is in some, especially I imagine that of the mother) because this could make them feel pressured into deciding on having the child they can't manage because they don't approve of research, eliminating the point of abortion.

Though I approve of the research on embryos. But in my opinion, only embryos that are available, not embryos created especially for the purpose of research. But then it could be suggested that a breakthrough is being prevented through lack of resources, so what do we do then? Another vote? It's a complex issue...
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