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    Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Discussion
    Topic Started: Jul 21 2010, 02:53 PM (1,164 Views)
    Tenalaba
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    Goomba
    I hope they have some awesome gimmick in this like the last games did.
    Mario has had it's share in unique games too! Jumping into a real-life painting got me nowhere but having some crazy alien dude screaming at me on a bridge! ¬_¬
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    Mastersnake
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    LK
    Jul 25 2010, 12:43 PM
    I don't think it'll necessarily hurt the game to feature no voice acting, but in my opinion, any triple A game to hit a home console should probably feature voice acting. Especially considering that Zelda features a large amount of text and reading already, it would be awesome if characters would express themselves with real voices instead of walls and walls of text, which gives them somewhat no personality (unless the game has sharp writing). I thought for sure that Nintendo would go all-out with this next Zelda game, but I guess not. Resting on their laurels again. I was already skeptical about Skyward Sword, but now I'm getting very skeptical. I have no doubt that it'll be pretty good, but they needed to do something new and exciting (like they did with Mario and Super Mario Galaxy), but nope—it doesn't look like that's happening.

    The funny thing is, too, was in an interview with IGN Miyamoto said that he wasn't sure if they were going to hire an orchestra for the music. So... They're just considering it? What console game in 2010 still uses MIDI and ends up being fine? Barely any, I bet.
    Well, now I can somewhat see your point. You are saying Zelda just can't be the same old, same old every single time. They have to mix it up a bit. And this doesn't just go with voice acting, but with music and other things. So with that in mind, yes I think I agree with you. I am still excited for Skyward Sword, but you are right in saying they can't do this forever. Zelda will have to evolve soon.
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    usmessi
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    Casual Bowser... oh, the horror!
    Tenalaba, please don't double-post. Just edit your original post.
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    Tenalaba
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    usmessi
    Jul 25 2010, 02:13 PM
    Tenalaba, please don't double-post. Just edit your original post.

    I just tried that, it didn't work for some reason
    Edited by Tenalaba, Jul 25 2010, 03:46 PM.
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    BonBon
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    Mastersnake
    Jul 25 2010, 01:09 PM
    Zelda will have to evolve soon.
    This won't happen until Miyamoto retires, or gives the series over to someone more competent.
    The man loves to keep his old franchises stagnant.
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    usmessi
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    Casual Bowser... oh, the horror!
    Yeah, and plus, why fix something that isn't broken?
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    Togeshroob
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    (Temporarily closed. ...Gwaargh!) *doo wee doo wee doo*

    They're changing things up. Pretty much everything about the game is changed; the way the items are used, control, story progression, blah blah, and you fans still complain.

    Omg, no voice acting. They're obviously not stepping out and doing something creative. How could they be so stupid. And big console, story-based game needs voice acting, obviously. Etc. Now the whole game is instantly stagnant and uncreative as well?

    We've seen two, two, TWO gameplay trailers. Short ones! In the generic forest area, of all places! We know a only a teeny tiny bit about the story. Almost nothing about characters. Little about gameplay mechanics and how they factor into the game. Next to nothing about environments.

    Quit prematurely judging this game D:<

    Voice acting isn't 'new and exciting.' Maybe in some degree for this specific series, but my point is that just because there's no voice acting and the short trailers of what we've seen show little new, does not mean anything about the quality and creativity and newness of this game. The trailers were solely for the purpose of demonstrating how the Motion Plus Sword control works. Nothing else! They'll show an epic, story-based trailer later.

    And LK, there's a huge reason why an orchestra is only being considered. Did you know that originally with Twilight Princess, they were going to use orchestration? Know why they decided not to? Because music in Zelda is more than just background music. It's a part of the gameplay. It always has been. I'm not talking playing intruments, I'm talking about changing and morphing background music. Think about Wind Waker's standard battle music. Remember how awesome a feature the changing music was? The music would smoothly and naturally morph and vary depending on what you did and how you fought.

    Do you realize how impossibly hard this is to do with orchestra recordings? The decision to nix TP's orchestra came from the fact that they wanted the music to be flexible and fit the gameplay, instead of just being the standard background music like most video games. And the fact that they're considering not using an orchestra for SS only evidences that they still care about even the most subtle hallmarks of the series.

    Personally, I think they should use orchestra for the story-based parts of the game, since those can't involve the free-will variables that come from the player. Then, leave the other parts synthesized so they may retain the same level of involvement with what you're doing.


    And Bon Bon, Miyamoto knows way more about how to handle his series than just about anyone I've seen out there. Listen to his interviews, he understands the way video games work as interactive, connective medium better than anyone I've ever seen. He knows what his series needs and what it doesn't. Why, if anyone from these days took Zelda over, we'd be seeing FPS Zeldas and futuristic Hyrules and ugh. That's an exaggeration, but still D:
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    LK
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    Togeshroob
    Jul 25 2010, 05:04 PM
    They're changing things up. Pretty much everything about the game is changed; the way the items are used, control, story progression, blah blah, and you fans still complain.
    Well, it has been hinted at. We haven't seen anything 100% concrete yet. And I'm not really complaining, all I said was is that Nintendo is 'resting on their laurels," when they still sort of are. I also said that I still think the game will good, I'm just skeptical.
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    Omg, no voice acting. They're obviously not stepping out and doing something creative. How could they be so stupid. And big console, story-based game needs voice acting, obviously. Etc. Now the whole game is instantly stagnant and uncreative as well?
    Wow, ha ha. You're taking my quotes way out of context.
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    We've seen two, two, TWO gameplay trailers. Short ones! In the generic forest area, of all places! We know a only a teeny tiny bit about the story. Almost nothing about characters. Little about gameplay mechanics and how they factor into the game. Next to nothing about environments.
    I know what you're saying but this has nothing to do with what I was talking about. When I said that Nintendo was resting on their laurels, I meant with the lack of voice acting, not story, characters, or anything you said.
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    Quit prematurely judging this game D:<
    I never judged the game at all. I said I'm skeptical, which is totally fine. If saying, "most games that come out on a home console should feature voice acting" means that I'm judging it, then that's weird.
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    Voice acting isn't 'new and exciting.' Maybe in some degree for this specific series, but my point is that just because there's no voice acting and the short trailers of what we've seen show little new, does not mean anything about the quality and creativity and newness of this game. The trailers were solely for the purpose of demonstrating how the Motion Plus Sword control works. Nothing else! They'll show an epic, story-based trailer later.
    Sure! I hope they do show an awesome trailer with a great story and fun gameplay. It doesn't change the fact that the series has lacked voice acting throughout its entirety, and them finally including it would pretty 'new and exciting' for the series.
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    And LK, there's a huge reason why an orchestra is only being considered. Did you know that originally with Twilight Princess, they were going to use orchestration? Know why they decided not to? Because music in Zelda is more than just background music. It's a part of the gameplay. It always has been. I'm not talking playing intruments, I'm talking about changing and morphing background music. Think about Wind Waker's standard battle music. Remember how awesome a feature the changing music was? The music would smoothly and naturally morph and vary depending on what you did and how you fought.

    Do you realize how impossibly hard this is to do with orchestra recordings? The decision to nix TP's orchestra came from the fact that they wanted the music to be flexible and fit the gameplay, instead of just being the standard background music like most video games. And the fact that they're considering not using an orchestra for SS only evidences that they still care about even the most subtle hallmarks of the series.
    I'm pretty sure it's not impossible to make some pretty atmospheric background music with an orchestra. I don't agree with this point at all. And it's Nintendo we're talking about here. If anyone can do it—it's them.

    Listen—I'm not sorry that I feel skeptical. The game looks like it could lots of fun, but remember how generic Twilight Princess was compared to other Zelda games? Majora's Mask was an absolute masterpiece that changed up nearly every facet of the game's fundamentals yet some hated it for being unique. Look at the Wind Waker: the game was unbelievably beautiful, it had the amazing pacing and good story, yet people loathed the visual style to being "too kiddish." So Nintendo went and made Ocarina of Time 2.0 but is the worst 3D Zelda yet. Skyward Sword has barely been shown, but from what we've seen—and heard—it doesn't seem like it's going to be the next big Zelda I was hoping for after Twilight Princess.
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    BonBon
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    Togeshroob
    Jul 25 2010, 05:04 PM
    They're changing things up. Pretty much everything about the game is changed; the way the items are used, control, story progression, blah blah, and you fans still complain.
    They're throwing in 1:1 sword combat and changed dungeon progression so that instead of field->dungeon->, it does sky->field->dungeon. That's all that's really been confirmed.

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    And Bon Bon, Miyamoto knows way more about how to handle his series than just about anyone I've seen out there.

    I honestly liked Yoshiaki Koizumi's and Aonuma's work on the 3D Zelda's more than Miyamoto's.
    Miyamoto is a great idea man. That can be seen by how he suggested the visor system in Metroid Prime, and his desire to make Skyward Sword use Motion Plus. However, he should step back, stay as a creative consultant, and give his role in the actual game development to someone who can take and expand upon his ideas.
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    Togeshroob
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    (Temporarily closed. ...Gwaargh!) *doo wee doo wee doo*

    Bonnie
     
    I honestly liked Yoshiaki Koizumi's and Aonuma's work on the 3D Zelda's more than Miyamoto's.
    Miyamoto is a great idea man. That can be seen by how he suggested the visor system in Metroid Prime, and his desire to make Skyward Sword use Motion Plus. However, he should step back, stay as a creative consultant, and give his role in the actual game development to someone who can take and expand upon his ideas.
    Well lucky for you, Miyamoto hasn't done any development for years. Aonuma's been heading it for a long time now; Miyamoto only supervises and makes sure things are in proper shape. What you said is really all he is now - an idea man.

    Bonnie
     
    They're throwing in 1:1 sword combat and changed dungeon progression so that instead of field->dungeon->, it does sky->field->dungeon. That's all that's really been confirmed.
    You don't just 'throw in' 1:1 sword combat. You change they entire way the game is played (not in concept, but in actual performance). Fighting isn't going to just be hack-n'-slash; there's more involvement. Enemies are designed solely with 1:1 sword combat in mind. Environments and puzzles are, too.



    And LK, as with most of my fanhate-ranting, I'm not directing anything at one specific person unless I somehow indicate doing so, so that's my fault for being unclear. I'm just attacking the general mindset of the fanhate in cases such as these, the 'I see one thing I don't particularly like, therefore the whole game is rubbish' view. I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was accusing you personally of that, because you certainly didn't come across that way.

    LK
     
    I'm pretty sure it's not impossible to make some pretty atmospheric background music with an orchestra. I don't agree with this point at all. And it's Nintendo we're talking about here. If anyone can do it—it's them.
    That's not what I was getting at... I said it's about impossible to make music that correlates directly into what's happening on screen using recorded orchestra. Making atmospheric music can be done with any kind of music. But the point isn't to make atmospheric music, the point is to make music that complements the gameplay, and the fact that they care about such a feature says a whole lotta good, I'd say.

    LK
     
    Skyward Sword has barely been shown, but from what we've seen—and heard—it doesn't seem like it's going to be the next big Zelda I was hoping for after Twilight Princess.
    But that's just the point! You said it yourself, it's barely been shown. It's much too early to develop premature thoughts on the final game. Sure it may not seem mind-blowing to you at this point, but we know so little! And I guess you're leaving yourself open, so that's great. Some people are unbelievably closed-minded though D:<
    Edited by Togeshroob, Jul 25 2010, 07:24 PM.
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    BonBon
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    Togeshroob
    Jul 25 2010, 07:23 PM
    Bonnie
     
    I honestly liked Yoshiaki Koizumi's and Aonuma's work on the 3D Zelda's more than Miyamoto's.
    Miyamoto is a great idea man. That can be seen by how he suggested the visor system in Metroid Prime, and his desire to make Skyward Sword use Motion Plus. However, he should step back, stay as a creative consultant, and give his role in the actual game development to someone who can take and expand upon his ideas.
    Well lucky for you, Miyamoto hasn't done any development for years. Aonuma's been heading it for a long time now; Miyamoto only supervises and makes sure things are in proper shape. What you said is really all he is now - an idea man.
    The problem is he still jumps in and takes control of development whenever he feels like it. God knows how many times he made Aonuma redo Twilight Princess because he didn't like the decisions being made.

    That's where he needs to learn to step down, and let the gameplay designers do their job.
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    Annvin
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    well, i like it, i will say nothing about this.
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    LK
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    Togeshroob
    Jul 25 2010, 07:23 PM
    And LK, as with most of my fanhate-ranting, I'm not directing anything at one specific person unless I somehow indicate doing so, so that's my fault for being unclear. I'm just attacking the general mindset of the fanhate in cases such as these, the 'I see one thing I don't particularly like, therefore the whole game is rubbish' view. I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was accusing you personally of that, because you certainly didn't come across that way.
    Oh, my bad. I thought you were specifically talking to me.

    I still stand by what I said, though.
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    Togeshroob
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    (Temporarily closed. ...Gwaargh!) *doo wee doo wee doo*

    Alrighty, glad we're on the same page :>

    Now, about voice acting -

    Characters in games can have just as much character without voice acting than with voice acting. The game can be just as emotionally pulling, as evidenced by games like Mother 3. I mean, they're just sprites, right? It's just text, right? Where's the realistic character models and convincing voice acting? And yet more people have cried to this game than... well I can't technically prove anything, but I've definitely heard more cases of tears shed by this game than by any other. I've talked to someone who said they lol'd at Arieth's (whoever that is) death from FF7, and that Mother 3 is the only game to make them cry. What's so emotionally moving about this game? It's obviously not voice acting, that's for sure.

    The thing about voice acting is that it's so hit-or-miss. You either have a great voice actor, or one who kills the character. With such iconic characters like Zelda and Link... I mean, they've been there for more than 20 years. Giving them a personal voice now could... Well, I admit that this is more personal reservation on my own part. I'd just rather not take the chance of them being, in a way, soiled. I mean, just LOOK at Brawl ._.

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    Think of it this way. You read an awesome book, and have all the characters exactly imagined in your head. Then, some cheap movie gets made from this book, and mercilessly kills everything you personally had with the characters! Zelda has always been about a personal adventure, a connection between developer and individual players through gameplay. Like in a book, the world opens up and develops for the individual reader, or in this case, the player. Voice acting, like live actors in the book-to-movie example, could work to ruin this connection, which, like I said, is what Zelda is about (Miyamoto has an interview about this, I can give it if you want).



    As for you, Bonnie -
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    The problem is he still jumps in and takes control of development whenever he feels like it. God knows how many times he made Aonuma redo Twilight Princess because he didn't like the decisions being made.

    That's where he needs to learn to step down, and let the gameplay designers do their job.
    Well at the same link that the no voice acting was found, it also said that Miyamoto hadn't done any of his signature 'upending the tea table'. But I guess you could take this as good or bad, given your stance on this :\

    I trust him, though.
    Edited by Togeshroob, Jul 25 2010, 11:32 PM.
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    BonBon
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    I was talking in a general view, not specifically referring to Miyamotos stance on voice acting.
    Though the real reason behind it is obviously that Zelda has a LOT of in-game dialouge, moreso than any other one of their franchises, and Nintendo doesnt want to dish out extra money for the number of voice actors it would take to record it all in a dozen different language. It wasn't Miyamoto's feelings that led to the decision, it was that it's cheaper to leave everything unvoiced.
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