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Yoshi Technique Diary; Daily Updates!
Topic Started: Jul 21 2007, 09:35 PM (324 Views)
Seanson
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High Tier
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I've decided since (a) I have so much free time on my hands and (b) I like yoshi, I've decided I will present and explain a yoshi strategy or move or something every day, and people can read, or ignore it! Choices! With each attack I'll say what it's good for and possible counters, so everyone can beat me easier. ugh! The yoshi board needed some activity anyways.

Disclaimer: There are my opinions, and some of my experiences my be exaggerated/made up.

July 21: Down Tilt
This move has a set knockback, and is yoshi's gimp tool. A fox/falco/marth up against the side of the stagewill be gimped by it if they have no jump. A marth leaving the ledge to 2nd jump to do a f-air or n-air back on to the stage will need to be careful. If the yohi can crouch cancel the attack and pull off a d-tilt, you're toast. For a marth, the best way to counter d-tilt edgeguarding (if yoshi is at very low %) is to jump from the ledge (don't fall off, jsut jump while hanging). A fox/falco illusion to sweetspot the ledge if too close, will leave fox/falco frozen for a split second up against the stage. If the yoshi d-tilts you at this time, you're toast. Falco has no chance of grabbing after the d-tilt, and fox could if yoshi didn't instant edgehog (which of course a good yoshi will). The best counter as fox/falco to the d-tilt, is too not go for the edge horizontally. You need some sort of vertical motion in which the yoshi can mis-time the tilt. Sweetspotting the ledge with firefox/firefalco(?) is sometimes dangerous. If the yoshi really wants to gimp, he may wait for you to go for the ledge, which would be your opportunity to go above him. Bottom line, as fox/falco, is to be careful of the instant edgehog, and be careful of the d-tilt. Hugging the wall makes it that much easier for a yoshi to d-tilt, but you can tech it then if you hug the wall (I just haven't seen it done much). If you are a fox and you firefox, it's possible (i think) for yoshi to d-tilt you without getting hurt, but usually the yoshi will get hit by the fire. If yoshi is high enough, he flies far enough for you to barely grab the ledge with firefox. If yoshi is too low, then he wont fly far, and can grab the ledge before you can firefox to it.

The down tilt not done as edgeguarding can be dangerous on it's own. It's often used as just a way to knock your opponent away and do minor damage. It doesn't really start combos if you tech the landing it makes (tech roll away from the yoshi, it will be too far for him to run up and hit you after teching). What I like to do is my form of 'waveshining'. A yoshi d-tilt can string to itself if the person does not tech. If they bounce, that is enough time for yoshi to wavedash up and barely hit with another d-tilt. With enough non-techs, the yoshi soon d-tilts you off the stage, and you're in a gimping situation. A good counter for the yoshi d-tilt is eiher rolling away (yoshi isn't THAT fast enough to catch up to a roll after a d-tilt) or just jump. The yoshi d-tilt has decent range, but the hitbox extends hardly outside of yoshi's self hitbox. Moves with good range (peach dsmash, jigg bair) will outrange the d-tilt. Clanging with the d-tilt is also an option, but the yoshi d-tilt is pretty quick to come out again, so if you clang you need to pull out a faster move, or get out of there.

Summary:
Counters: Come from above. Moves with range. Run away!
Good For: Gimping. Cross Stage Hitting (if they don't tech). Getting some Breathing Room (yoshi's aren't up close and personal critters)

July 22: 2nd Jump (DJC included)
Everyone should know yoshi's 2nd jump is the farthest and most powerful 2nd jump in the game. PROS are (1) most distance vertically (2) makes yoshi heaver than a 5 ton weight and (3) allows yoshi to change directions and (4) you go down a bit before up (allows for instant edgehog). CONS ar (1) you go down a bit before up, making ledge jumping harder, and makes it tougher to escape vertically. it sounds like RRrrRRrRRrRRRR

one thing any good yoshi player will do, is DJC (Double Jump Cancel). this is going one direction and then jumping the opposite direction in the air to go the opposite direction. this is used to change direction really fast and to juke your opponent. DJC has the same effect as wavedashing, but you can do it in the air. yoshis usually do a DJC to f-air or n-air (n-air if close to the ground) although DJC can be tricky, it can be countered! here is how!

Countering DJC. Well, DJC uses yoshi's air-jump, hisl ast jump. After a DJC, a yoshi has no more jumps, so that is the time to strike. careful though, a yoshi might plan to intercept if yoshi thinks that his opponent will jump at him. if that is the case, then the yoshi will swing too early. in almost all cases, a simple backwards wavedash should protect you from a DJC attack, ONLY if yoshi is kind of far away. you have to judge how far yoshi will go from his jump. another counter to the DJC is: shielding! Yoshi's n-air and f-air do NOT have enough shield stun to hit, and run away. In most cases, yoshi can get shield grabbed after a DJC attack. BUt then again, a yoshi DJCs only when he thinks it wont be shieidl grabbed. If you are near a yoshi when he tries to DJC, do a fast move. I have been knocked out of DJC because I get hit after I start my attack, but before the hitbox comes out. this is dangerous though. if you hit too soon, yoshi will still be in his jump, and he will be unphased, and can n-air you. At worst, I suppose, you traded hits.

Ok, back to yoshi's JUMP. I've said what it does, but what can you do to it (when it isnt being used as DJC)?????? Super powerful attacks. Most of the time, a yoshi can't afford to u-air when he's recovering from below, for fear of not getting high enough to live. so yoshi will either air dodge, or take the hit (and hope to trade one back, usually a n-air). if yoshi air dodges, you usually have enough time to land another attack, and hopefully have enough time to aim yoshi off the stage again (to death!). Beware: A yoshi from below may do Ledge Cancelled Eggs. Read tomorrow's update for how to deal with those. How do you get a yoshi coming from ABOVE??? I like to do the down air. It has a constant hitbox, and a yoshi fastfall makes it really hard to time a countering move. If a yoshi does a d-air. I suggest you don't try to go at him, but maneuver so you can punish him when he lands, since yoshi is kind of stuck in the d-air (lasts long) so it leaves him vulnerable in that regard. If yoshi does not do a dair, but does not also do a down-b, then you should just go up and hit him. chances are that his 2nd jump isnt going anymore, so he should be normal weight without any jumps. he may do a n-air or f-air, but it isnt too hard to work around those timings/hitboxes to punish him off the stage. (ask if you'd like me to go into details on that). one tactic form coming from above is appearing to go in far, but the airdodging backwards towards the off-stage, and fastfalling to the ledge. I'm not sure exactly how to counter this, it seems to have been successful for me, but then it puts me in Yoshi's Edge Game which I suck at. I'll get into yoshi's edge game in a later update. FINALLY, that last thing a yoshi could do is down-b to sweetspot the edge. Not much can be done about this, because yoshi's down-b has a huge priority, and moves really fast. If you think you can knock yoshi from the side, go for it, but going from below, I wouldn't try, unless you have a long lasting u-air, like link's u-air, or IC u-air (not sure if it has enough priority though). I would just prepare for yoshi's edge game if he does the down b.

keep in mind, a recovering yoshi will switch up recovery tactics based on his percentage. after about 60-80%, attacks will phase yoshi and he can no longer afford to exchange hits/plow through attacks. if you are high, and yoshi is not, you do NOT want to trade hits. a yoshi's best revenge after dying is kill the weakened opponent by using 2nd jump to absorb a hit, then use a n-air or something to KO.

Summary:
DJC - trickery. change directions, but loses jump. very very fast. can instant edgehog.
Countering DJC: flee appropriately. jump at yoshi to knock him out of jump (hopefully after he uses it). shield/shield grab.
2nd Jump - super huge, wishing it had a 3rd jump following it, absorbs hit like a moth (marth fsmash doesnt phase until like 70% non-tipper)
countering 2nd jump: don't grab, if yoshi is not weak, do NOT trade hits. if yoshi is weak, hit him with strong hit. force him to take hit, or air-dodge (which makes him vulnerable, in a way)

July 22: Yoshi's Edge Game (eggs included)
coming on the 22nd!
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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Cool! I've honestly been wondering what I should do to counter some of these imba moves Yoshi has!
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Seanson
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i think tomorrow i'll talk about the issue of how to edgeguard yoshi. seems nobody knows how!
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Kyle
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FluxWolf
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LOL Yeah that's so true... My god, his 2nd jump is invincable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE'S TOO GOOD.
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illboyzeus
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IDK why, most yoshii's tend to airdodge to the stage when attempting to come back, waiting to get punished.
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D.Disciple
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illboyzeus
Jul 21 2007, 11:11 PM
IDK why, most yoshii's tend to airdodge to the stage when attempting to come back, waiting to get punished.

The curse of not having a third jump.
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Seanson
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airdodging is a mistake. after the air dodge you linger too long. any attack that you might have evaded will be followed by a different one.

peach/zelda air dodge is uber good in this regard. you evade their attack and continue to move away
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